Random? I don't think so.

Did you hit any jackpots? Did you get a great comp? We all want to know!
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FloridaPhil
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Re: Random? I don't think so.

Post by FloridaPhil »

I don't want anyone to think I am throwing stones at "Bob Dancer". He is the king of Advantage Play and I am in no way disputing that fact. I am frustrated because no one takes the time to discuss playing small time negative VP games when 99% of us do.

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

Phil you aren't throwing stones at BD, you are throwing boulders. This is evident to not only me but others as well and you've said before that you were going to stop this practice but yet you continue to do so.

You commented the other day about your business and how people used you instead of their own people. How would you like it if people went to your customers and showed them a potential savings when hiring in-house people instead of using your company? When you start losing revenue it wouldn't feel so good, would it?

FloridaPhil
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Post by FloridaPhil »

Tedlark wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:30 am
Phil you aren't throwing stones at BD, you are throwing boulders.
I have no idea what you are talking about. No one on this forum has promoted Video Poker for Winner's software more than I have. I have even posted links to his website. If his business plan is so fragile that a 71 year old guy who plays 97% quarter VP living in Florida can hurt it, it has more problems than I have caused. I am not responsible for people having bad feels for "Bob Dancer". They hear what he says and ignore the parts they don't like. When it doesn't work as they think it should, they get angry.

onemoretry
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Post by onemoretry »

Well, when you suggest that Bob Dancer is paid by casinos to direct players to higher denomination games, that, in my opinion, is a substantial boulder.

FloridaPhil
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Post by FloridaPhil »

You guys are beating a dead horse. Writing articles to justify betting $25 a hand can only be interpreted one way. What is the purpose of posting this if not to entice players to play those games? If you say "five dollars a coin", it doesn't sound like it would harm anyone. In an hour, a $5 player would risk at least $12,500. In an eight hour day, that's $100,000. Advocating betting $100,000 a day in a slot machine to gain an edge is not responsible to me, a judge or any jury. I believe this type of sales talk is irresponsible. If you don't, perhaps you should ask your wife or members of your family. The fact that Mr. Dancer makes a profit this way does not make it workable for the general public, regardless of their intelligence level.

I am trying to close out this thread. If you want to have the last word, be my guest. You are not going to change my mind. High stakes video poker should never be used as a tool to sell products or services. If someone wants to use it to pump up their ego, I see no harm in it. People are pretty good at seeing through that.

Eduardo
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Post by Eduardo »

FloridaPhil wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:37 am
Writing articles to justify betting $25 a hand can only be interpreted one way.
To provide players with information about an opportunity should they decide to play it?

At least I assume that's what you mean, since you've been clear that Mr Dancer is up front about people not playing over their heads.

Or is this your way of "not" throwing stones again... :?

Nobody is telling you to play $25 a hand. I don't see why you are so fixated on this.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

case wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:21 pm
Did you ever consider that people who play with an edge actually might enjoy the game and call it entertainment as well?

So they enjoy what they do and might even make a few dollars to add to their enjoyment.

What Phil fails to grasp is most advantage players are not playing to make a living but rather they enjoy the game and stand to profit as well.

When I go to Vegas and come home even I am satisfied. I had a great time and it did not cost me any money. If I lose I can still say I enjoyed myself and had a good chance to make a few dollars. If I win a lot then I beat the game and again had a great time.

I play mostly positive games in Vegas but I play because I love the game.....period.
Very good post Case. Unlike some others, you your posts do not demean and disparage but rather are positive in nature.

There are all kinds of recreational VP players. One could say the 50 typologies of recreational VP players A few examples. Some study the game intently, take copious notes, e.g. counting hands, and look for the edge. Others play regularly without the note taking and intense study. Some, like my wife and I when we were playing would go on an adhoc basis. Our concern (see my post regarding casual playing) was to have a night out. We know the rudiments of strategy but no counting hands etc. Still others may play a little here or there without ever reading a VP strategy book. The point is one can provide advice and commentary, that's what the forum is about, without disparaging or degrading posters for how they view VP as a recreational activity.

I am always drawn to a comparison with golfers. Amateurs may take many lessons, buy the best clubs and take vacations to play notable courses. Others go out and spend a day on a local public course just to get out of the house.

BobDancer
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Post by BobDancer »

I find it interesting that participating in drawings, to FP, is "playing the comp system." Knowledgeable players know drawings and comps are completely separate. And evaluating drawings requires a completely different skill-set than evaluating comps --- or deciding which game to play --- or learning to play the game well. These are all under the umbrella of "playing video poker successfully," but they aren't the same thing.

FP says he wants me to write the truth about bad games --- but he doesn't want me to just say to avoid them. Avoiding them is the most responsible advice I know how to give. If he wants more advice I could suggest playing them R-E-A-L-L-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y, or perhaps less often.

FP has a thing about high stakes video poker. He thinks it's irresponsible for him to play for high stakes (he is correct about that) --- and therefore he wants to make the decision for everybody in the world and decide it's irresponsible for anybody to play like that. Even those who can afford the swings. Even those who understand that drawings aren't part of the comp system. Even those who can figure out and stick to a strategy better than he can. Even those who believe they should have the right to make the decision for themselves. He believes it's just plain wrong. Period. His mind is made up. He will lash out at anyone who tries to argue otherwise.

I believe that there are people who can responsibly play games like this. And I have things to teach such people. So I write about these things. There are people who cannot responsibly play games like this. And I explain the attributes of people in each group.

Insofar as writing my columns goes, I don't get paid by casinos. I get paid by the Las Vegas Advisor for writing articles that are interesting enough to enough people so LVA gets enough visitors to their site to justify the (small) amount they pay me. (The LVA doesn't get paid by casinos either. They make their money from subscribers to their newsletter and purchasers from their website.) The LVA doesn't tell me to talk about high stakes opportunities. Or low stakes. Or good games. Or bad ones. Or to limit myself to video poker. I get to write whatever I like --- basically until not enough people want to read me anymore. Or until Anthony Curtis or me myself decides that it's time to not do this anymore.

Next week's column on the LVA is one that should mystify and frustrate FP considerably --- although I wasn't thinking about him at all when I wrote it. I played 10 hours straight on a $1 Ten Play Ultimate
X machine ($25 per pop) during a promotion on July 4 that wasn't worth very much. (And had nothing at all to do with comps. Or drawings, for that matter.) The article explains how I determined how much the promotion was worth and why on earth I hammered it anyway even though it wasn't worth very much.

It is my belief that wannabe winners want to understand the thought processes of those who have figured out how to win. And so I explain what my thoughts were. The thought processes involved in this would be equally applicable games at $1.25 a pop --- it's just not worth my time to play such games. In no way do I consider the article telling people to play a $25 per pop game --- although FP will tell you that there is no other possible reason why I would write such an article.

Change of subject: Under the new forum rules, FP is welcome everywhere on the forum --- until he abuses the rules sufficiently again that he is barred from one or more of the forums.

I'm thinking the first of October is the over-under date which would be a fair bet on when he is barred again. Who thinks that date is too late or too early?

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

Bob, very efficient post. Is your math right though when you talked about playing on a $1.00 Ten Play Ultimate X machine ($25.00 per pop)? Shouldn't it have been $100.00 per pop?

Vman96
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Post by Vman96 »

Tedlark wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:32 pm
Bob, very efficient post. Is your math right though when you talked about playing on a $1.00 Ten Play Ultimate X machine ($25.00 per pop)? Shouldn't it have been $100.00 per pop?
Yeah I would think $100 a pop too for ten play dollars. Maybe he meant ten play quarters?

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