It's Vegas Baby!!

[Lionqueen]

Those are the hands we all huddle on, talk about it, take a drink, rub the machine, close our eyes and either high five or cuss like sailors. It's fun! That's why we go.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=onemoretry] In fact, in my opinion, it is to my personal advantage for other
players to play sub optimally, whatever their reason for so doing. They
are adding to the casino's bottom line, and that enhances the casino's
ability to continue to offer decent video poker games.[/quote]Does making this comment make you feel superior?   I get what you're saying and generally agree, but it doesn't have to be said.  [quote=onemoretry]What I find truly puzzling are play decisions based on prior results.
To me, it is completely irrational to not draw to four flushes because
"they're not hitting today", shunning inside straight draws because "I
never hit them, and they're not worth much anyway", or making any other
play adjustments according to how well, or not well, the day has been
going so far.[/quote]I totally agree.  Anyone who makes their VP play decisions like that is kidding themselves.  If  they do, I'm certainly not going to thank them in public for putting money in my pocket. 

[onemoretry]

Does making this comment make you feel superior?   I get what you're saying and generally agree, but it doesn't have to be said. I guess I could have worded that differently, and no, it doesn't make me feel superior. But, if it's more or less correct, why not say it?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=onemoretry]But, if it's more or less correct, why not say it?
[/quote]Because it's insensitive and confrontational.  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[OTABILL]

[QUOTE=OTABILL]
My results may not mean anything to you, or anyone else on this site. But they mean something to me.

An interesting aside, you and most of the others here who concentrate on the math etc., apparently don't go to the casino with anyone else. Phil, myself and others who keep emphasizing having a good time as our primary objective often, if not all the time, go with a spouse or significant other on casino outings and play VP together. This may very well explain why we have a different perspective. So lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. Fair enough?I didn't even know we were disagreeing about anything.As far as I know, these are facts:- In the short term, anything can happen.  Can you hit royals 3 hands in a row?  Unlikely, but sure.  Can you hit royals 1 million hands in a row?  I mean, I guess it's possible, but only in the sense that it's possible that wings will spontaneously grow out your back and you'll fly out into the sky.- But talking long term, If you play a -EV poker game, the more hands you play, the closer you
will get to your expected outcome.  No, there are no guarantees, and no
matter how many hands you play, it will never be 100%, but you can get
as arbitrarily close to 100% as you want, if you play enough hands.- While there are 'correct' moves to make EV-wise, people are obviously free to play however makes them happiest.  Just know that over the LONG TERM, you will lose more, as the effects of short term luck will evaporate.And just as an aside, I can't speak for the other math types here, but I'm not trying to convince anyone to play a certain way.  What I have an issue with is that the people saying "Well, I've hit X royal flushes doing this Y incorrect move, so the math doesn't holdt" are just flat-out wrong.  You can't be results-oriented in your thinking.  I know in live poker, that's a huge flaw for players as well.  "Oh, well I won a pot sticking around when I only had 1 out, so it must have not been that bad of a play."  No, it was still a bad play, you just lucky.  Same thing with video poker when you make a hand on an incorrect hold.  You got lucky.  But the longer you play, the less luck matters.[/QUOTE]

The only thing we disagree about is our individual non-monetary objectives in playing VP. As far as I am concerned, I have no problem with how you approach the game. As far as the math, we are essentially on the same page. Peace.

[FloridaPhil]

We all enjoy VP or we wouldn't be on this forum.   How we play is a personal choice and I'm OK with it all.  I try to be sensitive to all opinions.   The "my way or the highway" crowd will never teach anyone anything.  All they do is make people angry.  I've been on this forum for 8 years.  I've learned a lot and have a lot more to learn.  I didn't learn anything from being insulted.  I learned the most from members who try to understand where I am coming from and use reason and logic, not insults.  I think this forum has made a breakthrough in the past few months and it's definitely a more enjoyable place to hang out.  Hopefully, I'm not the only one who wants it to stay that way.

[markinca]

As I've said before, my issue isn't with people wanting to play to have fun by playing how they want.  That's the whole point of doing anything - to have fun.  Go and have fun.What I have an issue with is anyone saying the math 'doesn't work' or somehow isn't applicable to a certain situation.  This is an extremely dangerous way of thinking and it's also completely wrong.  The math DOES work.  It always works.  Again, you can play how you want, and if you're fine with the FACT that if you make a lot of deviations that you'll lose more in the long run, then more power to you.  I'm not telling anyone how they should and shouldn't play.  But claiming that because you made an incorrect play a few times and it worked out for you that you can state that 'the math isn't always right' is just flat out insanity.  If this is you, then you're wrong, period.

[notes1]

the reality is that one playing perfect math, on a positive machine, over a prolonged time period, does not guarantee one positive results. and, there is no guarantee that one playing perfect math, will have better results than one who does not.

if the game takes place in a casino, it is gambling.

[Lionqueen]

I've made incorrect plays that worked out for me but never claimed or will claim they were the better play or think it will always work out that way. I call them flukes or luck. I know they were the incorrect math but do it anyway. My friend always goes for the inside straight and says she gets them all the time but she doesn't go for the full house if one pair is face cards because she says she never gets them. I tell her she's crazy and she tells me to shut up. We're friends so can say those things to each other but I wouldn't say it to a stranger.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=markica]What I have an issue with is anyone saying the math 'doesn't work' or
somehow isn't applicable to a certain situation.  This is an extremely
dangerous way of thinking and it's also completely wrong.  The math DOES
work.  It always works.[/quote]No one on this forum that I remember ever said math doesn't work.  I have said over and over again that math is the best predictor we have.  What I and others have said is that the predictions math makes are not guaranteed to play out on your machine when you play it.   This does not mean you ignore what it tells you or bet the farm because you believe math owes you a jackpot.I have also said it's fine with me if someone knows what the math says and plays contrary to it for their own purposes.   Any VP issue or question should be open to discussion on this forum without resorting to personal attack, name calling or threatening to take your ball and go home.   That's the way intelligent civilized discussions are conducted.  Who knows, you might even convince someone you are right?