Single Game vs. Multi Game

[DaBurglar]

It is because of the fact that I understand variance that I feel comfortable concluding that along the way of playing video poker for the last 15 years, I have encountered a handful of machines that were just "not right".  Almost all were/are in Atlantic City and almost all have appeared in the last 5 years or so..... Aside from the people I know, talk to, play with and share with, I really have kept meticulous records on the better portion of my play dating back to 1999 (i have files and files, along with dusty old notebooks from back in the days before uber cheap laptops became the norm!) As I have stated before, MOST of my play I am certain was on legit machines and the data from those machines and sessions fits into expected distirubution patterns.  There is just this meddling 7-10% of my sessions since 2007 in Atlantic city where the results not only fell/fall WAYYYYY beyond even extreme variance expectations, they also indicate PATTERNS that simply should not exist in a supposed legit random number generating game simulation.   And many of my friends and family who also play regularly have had strangely similar results and experiences, in a number of cases on the same machine over extended time periods.  I dont know what else to tell you, the suspicious instances just JUMP out at you.  Multi line games in Vegas and Reno, the times I have played, seem close to legit ranges, but in AC something is wayyy off with these games.  But forget multi line for a moment and consider a few other points:   Recently at the Atlantic Club, I managed to lose $650 in about 90 minutes playing 25 cent single line Video Poker, primarily full pay deuces wild and 8/5 Bonus poker.  In this 90 minutes I played 6 machines right in a row to each other and had almost the exact same (losing) experience on each over this 90 minute debacle....all 6 machines continuously dealt zero value hands in streaks averaging 12-13 hands at a time (remember this is mostly deuces wild with 8/5 bonus poker thrown in for relief to no avail)  I never had more than 2 deuces on any one final hand/draw on 5 of the 6 machines, coincidentaly the last machine drew a third deuce on the next to last hand before I quit.  It is mond boggling that all six machines in a row would be so frigid so close together and in such similar patterns/fashions.   In this 90 minute bloodbath I played exactly 1,122 hands....as I looked around, the other 12 or so players were all wearing similar dismal expressions, at one point after I lost 650 bucks I stood up and asked out loud, "is anyone having ANY success?"   No one answered affirmative, most just shook their heads or shrugged.  (One thing I have learned, people usually love to share success stories so the fact no one was winning cemented my own suspicions further.) I have had similar experiences in other AC properties, but never on so many machines in such close proximity and time.  Almost always, when dealing with one cold machine, if I switch, usually there is a "little" bit of improvement at least initially (my data bears this out 85% of the time I have documented switching machines during a cold spell, which simply indicates and emphasizes just how COLD the original machine was rather than the new machine being "better")    BUT GETTING BACK TO MULTI LINE GAMES , and other rigged single line games....in AC in the past 5 years I have had NUMEROUS streaks where during a session I rattle off 20 to 25 dead zero value hands in a row (sometimes MORE!) repeatedly during a session, and this is consistent with what others have told me is POSSIBLE with the user menu settings available on most modern day video poker machines.   The casinos CAN have the machines deal larger percentages of "random" dead hands....  

[Eduardo]

and this is consistent with what others have told me is POSSIBLE with the user menu settings available on most modern day video poker machines.   The casinos CAN have the machines deal larger percentages of "random" dead hands....  


I'm afraid you'd have to back this statement up somehow, because that would clearly violate gaming regulations. And the fact that you say it's right in the user menu settings would make it obvious to the gaming commission and you would have an easy case to make.

If I had to guess, I would say someone you talked to saw a menu screen and misinterpreted what they were reading, then came up with this story.

Or they were looking at a class 2 machine (with or without their knowledge), for which no observations, winning percentages, or strategy discussion should really matter because they don't operate the same way as the machines in Vegas or atlantic city

[BillyJoe]

It is because of the fact that I understand variance that I feel comfortable concluding that along the way of playing video poker for the last 15 years, I have encountered a handful of machines that were just "not right".  Almost all were/are in Atlantic City and almost all have appeared in the last 5 years or so.....
 
Didn't I read not too long ago that they disbanded the independent New Jersey Gaming Commission, and moved the responsibility for monitoring gaming in AC over to the state (the same folks that collect casino taxes)? Hmmm... 

[onemoretry]

   Recently at the Atlantic Club, I managed to lose $650 in about 90 minutes playing 25 cent single line Video Poker, primarily full pay deuces wild and 8/5 Bonus poker 

 There's full pay deuces at the Atlantic Club?  That's certainly been a well kept secret!

[faygo]

[QUOTE=DaBurglar]
   Recently at the Atlantic Club, I managed to lose $650 in about 90 minutes playing 25 cent single line Video Poker, primarily full pay deuces wild and 8/5 Bonus poker
 
 
There's full pay deuces at the Atlantic Club?  That's certainly been a well kept secret![/QUOTE]
 
 The best I've seen there shorted the Wild Royal 25 credits. I might not be looking in the right place.

[faygo]

[QUOTE=DaBurglar]
   Recently at the Atlantic Club, I managed to lose $650 in about 90 minutes playing 25 cent single line Video Poker, primarily full pay deuces wild and 8/5 Bonus poker
 
 
There's full pay deuces at the Atlantic Club?  That's certainly been a well kept secret![/QUOTE]
The best I've seen there shorted the Wild Royal 25 credits. I might not be looking in the right place?

[davidearl]

   Could you repeat that, faygo       Dave

[faygo]

 I haven't a clue how that happened.

[DaBurglar]

Eduardo, I've covered this before, but once again:  Casinos, when they purchase or lease a machine (especially the newer ones) they have the option of customizing the games they offer, and I dont just mean simply altering paytables.  "User defined code tables" are a common feature with any software programming application purchased by a company and video poker is the simplest basic example of this.   A casino CAN create and offer customized versions of any game they want, AS LONG AS THEY FULLY DISCLOSE this to players before hand.   Most video poker is just bought and put on the floor in its generic pre-fab version, but it is possible to create and offer new fangled versions of the games we play.   The user menu settings I have been told and described to me are set to comply with gaming regulations and for the most part are left alone and never touched.  WHEN, and iF a gaming commission official wants to look at a machine, it is THESE settings, among other things, that they actually examine to ensure the game(s) being offered are set to accurately mimic the results of a real live deck of cards being dealt.   But if a casino wants to advertise and offer video poker that has GREATER frequency ROYAL flushes, they can do this (like Terribles casino did back in 2006-2007) by utilizing the settings offered on their machines.  Or the promotional games I saw way back when at the Orleans.  It is not feasible to custom program every single desired gaming scenario, nor is it feasible for gaming officials to take apart machines and micro examine the innards and the thousands of lines of code.   Looking at a table of settings on a easy to access menu makes more sense.   I would bet most machines are set properly, but one can easily see and understand how a few might not be....look, I know full well just HOW poorly AC is doing right now, it REALLY REALLY is bad for the properties there, especially the REVEL situation;  IF EVER there was a situation for casinos to rig video poker it is NOW, and the paytables have been slashed as low as they reasonably can go without driving away the bulk of the remaining business, so they cant just "lower paytables" just to make more money, nor can they simply get rid of Video poker altogether (like they want to) because they would likewise LOSE a lot more business NOT limited to the Video Poker itself (many spouses have one spouse who plays tables or video poker, the other plays slots.....lose the video poker player, you lose their spouse too!) If you have ever installed a computer game, you would know what I mean when I talk about User defined code tables and menu settings.  A random number generator lies at the heart of most games.....user menus and settings allow you to modify, weight or handicap the results generated RANDOMLY by the RNG into a quantifiable useful result that is displayed.  How this can work with a video poker machine, either in favor of or against a player, is obvious. Billie Joe, yes the NJ Gaming commission is struggling just like AC itself is....the northern part of the state with its racetracks, lottery outlets and what not has been receiving oversight from state agencies like the state police and others in lieu of the NJ gaming commission so that the resources of the commission can focus on AC.  In AC itself, cheaters, money launderers, background checks, underage gaming are currently taxing the NJ commission's resources to the limit.   This past year alone there have been three widely publicized instances of teenagers (one as young as 14) gambling in the Tropicana alone!  The governor chris christie went apesh*t when he heard of this and instructed the NJ commission to "eliminate" this problem, even though it really is primarily the casinos' responsibility.   But the governor, knowing who fills his coffers, let the casinos off lightly when he said the casinos are suffering due to poor business and cant afford to hire enough security guards to scrutinize all patrons!   Oh yeah, I almost forgot, one other NJ Gaming commission "duty" is now evaluating and overseeing how each AC property is protecting and ensuring guest safety in light of several murders in recent years on AC properties.  This was a major pissing contest between the casinos, the commission and the city of AC itself (the mayor and police department).   Predictably the city and mayor cried poverty when asked to patrol all AC properties and parking garages, the casinos cried poverty asserting their guards are neither armed nor paid enough to tackle would be armed killers, so the commission gets tabbed again to "assist" the properties in preventing (not stopping attacks in progress mind you, just preventing) crime. Now someone tell me just how secure we player should feel that , in AC, ANY cheating by a casino at video poker will definitely get caught by this "commission"?  C'mon man!  and newsflash!  IF, i mean IF, a casino was caught with a rigged video poker game they would not "AUTOMATICALLY" lose their licens.....c'mon, if believe that you really dont understand the real business world and how things work or are interdependent.  The far more likely outcome woul simply be to fix the machine, pay a slap on the wrist fine and promise to not do it again.....oh, and maybe fire or at least demote someone.   THAT IS IT!  Neither the state nor its gaming commission will slit its own throat nor bite the hand that feeds it.  If the alleged cheating received a lot of notoriety or was proven to be on a more vast scale, then more sever consequences would ensue but still would NOT involve revoking a license.  If a state pulls a license do you know the trouble and cost involved?  Not only do they lose the existing source of revenue, they must now devote the time and expense to find a replacement source on which to bestow the license....a process that takes a lot of time and resources ON TOP of everything else.  They will do anything to avoid revoking a license, trust me....   Full pay deuces at Atlantic club.....there were four machines in the bank of six I got clobbered on that were set to full pay.....but mind you, the "new" Atlantic club is always changing and altering paytables so you have to always be vigilant.

[ginfre]

Wow, the way you guys talk, and whats been happening in the schools, we've decided to STAY AWAY FROM THE CASINOS!  I'm dern glad I am free of any gambling problem.  All the fun is being taken out of the whole deal as far as I'm concerned.  Keep the analysis and the observations coming.  Your making easy decisions for me.