Distressing CET VP Stories

[Tedlark]

Vman I'll put up half of your $500.00.

[Tedlark]

Furthermore, my posts generally stick to the topic of Video Poker in AC as the central theme, and I am looking for other people who do go to AC to share and comment on what I have experienced....I know I am not the only one experiencing such dismal results in AC!     
 
If you dont want to engage on the issues I raise, then please just IGNORE or bypass my posts.....seriously.    And besides, you totally missed the real overall point of my post, and chose to focus on a small tangential issue and distorted the context with your underline/bold face blurb......[/QUOTE]
 
  DaBurglar I have been to Atlantic City several times. As for your statement that your posts generally stick to the topic of video poker in AC as the central theme, I completely agree. Your theme though all too often includes you expressing your opinion about the abissmal state of video poker in AC, your complete mistrust in the NJ Casino Division of Gaming Enforcement Regulations and, your belief that certain AC casino operators are bypassing gaming regulations and somehow changin a machines RNG, just to name a few. How could I distort the context of your words merely by underlining/boldfacing them when I copied them word for word?
 
  How many times have I, and several others, suggested to you to quit playing video poker in AC if you think there is something rotten in the state of New Jersey? I'd say Denemark but it really doesn't work in this sense.
 
  Instead you continue on your Visonquest to prove that something is wrong in AC video poker. In AC people win playing video poker and people lose playing video poker. This is no different than people playing video poker in Las Vegas; some win and some lose. You just refuse to accept that you lose playing video poker in AC. I'm not saying that you are unlucky, or even that you are a bad video poker player. I am saying that you have not proven to me that video poker is rigged in AC.  

[Vman96]

Vman I'll put up half of your $500.00.

Thanks a lot, Ted. But as we can see from the silence, I feel you'll only be emergency support.   

[DaBurglar]

I love it when people, who clearly have nothing else going on, post in a thread about a debate over something, that when the other party doesnt respond in X amount of time, they pound their chest and say "AHA!  He gave up!"   or   "Well that got him, didnt it?" Excuse me for having other crap to do....  You realize how ridiculous your post offering 500 measly bucks in exchange for all that BS is dont you? I've already posted the simple, obvious solution which you conveniently ignore.....I've already spoken to the Gaming Commission people in their office on Tennesse Avenue in AC, many times.....I have also spoken ad nauseum with people from several of the casinos, particularly Trump.   I have told you what they told me, several times in several different posts spread throughout this forum.    Why the F--- dont you just do what I told you to do?  CALL them yourself, or go visit them, or have someone you know who goes to AC go talk to them if you are unwilling to go there yourself......or better yet, HAVE SOMEONE else from this forum go and ASK THEM the questions I have posed, along with the reasons WHY you are asking them. This started for me when after 4years of playing VP in AC I noticed how completely off the charts BAD the VP machines generally paid in AC, when compared to all the other places I had ever played in my life, especially Nevada.   I then sought reasons for this because it is too stark and too awful to simply be simple randomness and / or bad luck at work.....and the culmination of my digging and inquiring has led me to this conclusion that I have stated previously, backed up by what they have told me and what I have seen and experienced. The application and interpretation of that third condition of the gaming regs regarding video poker, about sufficient mathematical info being available to infer optimal strategy, is NOT violated by simply having an RNG deal results that are weighted in such a way so as to produce enough dead/zero value hands to bring the return rate down from, say 99.54% in the case of 9/6 JOB, to 95% (or lower) because, as far as the player is concerned, his optimal strategy is STILL apparent and discernible from the paytable posted.   Blame NJ's law allowing 83% for slots and allowing VP to be classified as a "slot", thats what I now do. Just call them, and ask point blank....."are all VP machines in AC Casinos set to pay exactly and ONLY the optimum return percentage based on the paytable."   I am confident you will get the answers I have been given and this debate can then shift to what the hell AC expects in this day and age having such rules in existence in the first place  Edited to add clarification:   As I stated before, what seems to be the case in AC is that casinos can and do set their VP machines to payback anywhere from the maximum allowed by the paytable to all the way down to 83% ..... that's the thing, you dont know what any particular VP machine is set to do at any given point, but it seems obvious some casinos (like Borgata, and possibly Harrahs) are content to leave most VP alone, while others (like Trump, AC Club) set their VP to pay more like a SLOT machine......there is DEFINITELY one game that I know is messed with Big time, the game known as Gold Mine Bonus Poker.   Trump Taj Mahal, and AC Club, both have a bank of 6 to 8 Machines with this Video Poker game, but it eats money at such a constant and blistering pace, it is obvious they have rest the return percent  to something in the low 90s or even lower.   If you ever bother to play it for a few hours, you will see what I mean....... But as to my original point that AC VP machines are a mixed bag, this makes sense from a business point of view in that if ALL VP machines in ALL AC casinos were set at LOW returns in the high 80s to low 90s, then I am certain most VP players would have totally abandoned AC long ago....but having some VP machines still behave like you would expect (i.e. paying what the paytable dictates) you maintain the illusion amongst gamblers that VP is, on the whole, not much different........but I maintain that, for a while now, people HAVE noticed that something is askew with VP in AC, because, as long as I can remember (starting in 2006, long before I ever went to AC to begin with) people would say AC VP doesnt pay as well as Nevada.  I always thought it was the paytables, but alas, the paytables in AC these days are not different than any where else.    A common gripe amongst all AC gamblers is "you never really win in AC", and this business with the VP machines clearly falls into this conclusion. I would suggest that, for a long time, say until 2006 before things started turning to crap for AC, the casinos probably left their VP alone.   But when business crashed and they started getting desperate, it makes sense they would turn to setting some of their VP lower, simply because, as written, their regs ALLOW this to happen!   Think about it.... 

[Tedlark]

  Again, no new information offered that would sway me to agree with you DaBurglar. If you are so sure of one game that has been "messed with" why don't you contact the gaming authorities and have something done about it? You know where their office is, on Tennessee Ave? Weren't you also in contact with a newspaper reporter?  

[ko king]

  Again, no new information offered that would sway me to agree with you DaBurglar. If you are so sure of one game that has been "messed with" why don't you contact the gaming authorities and have something done about it? You know where their office is, on Tennessee Ave? Weren't you also in contact with a newspaper reporter?  

I'm not taking sides on this issue but I've been there done that before, pushed the issue pretty hard, they said they would test the machines and get back to me. Believe it or not I was told all the VP games were operating within the "curve range" except for a couple of lower denomination machines that were slightly below the "curve range". Still confused because I had never heard that term used in association with VP I inquired about what the "curve range" was and was told between 83-99.9% payback, oddly enough that's the regulation for slot machines. I could never get a straight forward intelligent answer to any of my questions so I simply ask "is the VP just like the VP I would play in Vegas" and I was told it was "comparable", they refused to say it was or was not the same. They let me know they were tired of dealing with me and advised me to drop the issue and play somewhere else if I wasn't happy with the product.

[DaBurglar]

  Again, no new information offered that would sway me to agree with you DaBurglar. If you are so sure of one game that has been "messed with" why don't you contact the gaming authorities and have something done about it? You know where their office is, on Tennessee Ave? Weren't you also in contact with a newspaper reporter?  
  it is not my intention to personally insult or be mean or cruel or unkind or whatever, to anyone here at this forum....but my god your questions and posts really border on the "thick"!    I am not trying to sway you tedlark, since you never go to AC on any regular basis anyway;  I could care less if you agree with me or not, it does not change or help me personally in any way shape or form.   If nothing else, in the event you ever do find yourself going to AC again on a continuous basis, you can at least have the benfit of my experience in case you find yourself experiencing such VP results as I experienced. I HAVE CONTACTED THE GAMING AUTHORITIES ABOUT, not just one game that I felt was messed with, BUT ALL THEIR VP GAMES!   That's what I have been posting about and talking about since I got here!!!   jeezus I have asked the NJ gaming people about their VP games in the AC casinos and what I have been told is what I posted about before:   ANY GIVEN VP MACHINE in ANY GIVEN AC CASINO at ANY GIVEN MOMENT can have as its set return percentage anything from the maximum of what the paytable allows, all the way DOWN to 83%!   That is IT!     TO  KO KING:    THANK YOU!!!!  You just reiterated, and validated, what I have been saying all these posts!   The response you got is EXACTLY what I received from BOTH the NJ gaming people  AND  Casino executives/management I spoke with......maybe now Vman will give  little more credence since it is no longer just me alone reporting this situation.  Folks, When I first went to AC in 2009 and played VP, it was radically different that anything I previously experienced in terms of results, and it only got worse.   Up to then I had only played in Vegas/Reno and my results were typical and well within standard ranges.    AFter a couple years of playing in AC, I knew my results there were not due to simple bad luck or randomness but something SYSTEMIC, something in the way the games were set. I had (wrongly) assumed when I first started in AC that their VP was just like Nevada'is.....If I made any error it was in assuming right away that VP was the same .....if only I had read the gaming regs in 2009 instead of waiting until 2011/2012 after I had been clobbered in numerous playing sessions!   I saw my abysmal results and thoug "Oh these games must be rigged!"    but the reality is they are Not rigged, they conform to AC regs but AC regs are radically different than Nevada's when it comes to VP return percent!    In other words, these machines in AC Casinos would NOT pass muster in Nevada Casinos, even thought on the surface the machines/games look exactly the same.....they are just configured/set up different to yield different return percentages.

[Tedlark]

  So after you reading the regs as far back as 2 years ago and having had your eyes opened to, what you consider to be inferior payback percentages, you still continue to play there?
 
  I would equate this to: a customer walking into a hamburger joint; watching the cook spit on their burger as it's being prepared; the customer complains to the manager and the manager does nothing about it; the customer then continues to go back to the hamburger joint for more delicious burgers.

[BillyJoe]

Actually, gentlemen, this thread topic was about CET changing the coin-in requirements for Tier Credits on higher return VP paytables, not about whether particular returns were/are achievable in AC.  

[Tedlark]

  Thanks for setting me back on the straight and narrow billyjoe, now go get your shinebox. Kidding, people, kidding.