The Overall State of things in General

[onemoretry]

Dealt hands (4 of a kind) are much, much more uncommon.
Judging by billyjoe's report on his recent Vegas trip, dealt quads were not particularly uncommon for him.

[roveer]

The only thing I can add from my perspective is this. In the fall last year Harrah's made a pretty big switchover from the old Style VP to the newer IGT machines.  I feared this as to me it would be a way for them to implement newer technology, newly designed RNG's and whatever loopoles they may have found in the rules.  My first visit on the new machines gave me among other things Quad Aces.  I was pretty happy with that visit and my fears of the new machines subsided.  There were other quirks, no speed button on my STP and a few other things, but quickly I adapted and can hardly remember time before the new stuff. What I will say is that since this all happened I have not had a jackpot above 10k.  I've had plenty of jackpots, I've posted plenty of pictures and it seems to me that the current state of VP to me is just about the same.  Now, as far as nothing above 10k goes.  I've only had a few hits above 10k.  I've had 10k hits, I've had 1 or 2 20k hit and I've had a 32k hit.  These all happened over a 3 year period.  So to say that I'm in a drought would not be a fair assessment as I've only been playing the new machines for 6 months.  Again, plenty of hits during this time.  One of my downfalls is that I will at times chase those big hits too far and give up way too much profit.  I've spent the past 2 months retooling my thinking about how I play and how to leave with profit. Truth be known I believe that you have to be willing to change your stratedgy (high level, not gameplay) at different times based on current conditions.  There are times where there will be big hits and there will be time when a small hit may be all that's coming.  The stratedgy is to do the very best you can at identifying what is happening and to adapt to it and take profit whenever you can. To that end, I've added a few things to my play in order to satisfy my need to keep gambling once I've acheived certain goals.  I play nickel machines now instead of pouring thousands back into my higher denomination machines after I've achieved a profit.  My most recent trip found me waiting for the results of a slot tournement and holding a 7k profit, I played a hundred bucks of multi-hand nickels and cashed out at 105.00 after I didn't place in the tournement.  To me, that was still fun.  It was also a different game than I usually play so it brought some much needed change. I'm determined to maximize profit this year and very determined not to train wreck like Ihave done so many times before.  This is my evolution 4 years in. Roveer 

[jc1656]

I agree with da burglar, I travel the country on business and when I visit any casino with good paytables it just does not matter. I play almost perfect DDB and TBP(1200) FOR ACES, I am also very very good at NSUD. I have seen my play time and 1099's decrease drastically over a 15-20 year period, I can not explain this. I think in my opinion that the casino's are trying to make up for less people and play, not sure how but when I sit for 3-4 hour sessions and can only hit 1-2 four of a kinds is sad. I play around 800-1100 hands an hour, I just go in thinking I will lose and that's no fun. I would love to post pics but in 2013 I played around 100 days of video poker and had $5139.00 in 1099's, I play 25.50,1,2 dollar.sad it really is!

[shinyvegas]

Here's the other thing. I don't play with a players card. I hate them. There's no rational reason for it. I never find the perks all that worth it. And honestly it sometimes feel insulting when I drop $2k and get $100 back in whatever crap they're offering. I used to be a VIP, Chairman, blah blah card holder. I just don't care about it. Maybe it's because I live here. But then again I don't like them tracking my play. It just bothers me. Am I supposed to play $5-10K before getting a "call attendant" payout? I'd rather get more frequent $800 hands. There used to be quite a few nights where I'd cash out of a machine and my print ticket would be $1700-$2500.

Or maybe, just maybe, my luck has turned and I'm a cranky bastard about it. In fact, that's probably more like it.

I just really, really miss those days of walking out with $10G+ every other week.

[BillyJoe]

Here's the other thing. I don't play with a players card. I hate them. There's no rational reason for it. I never find the perks all that worth it. And honestly it sometimes feel insulting when I drop $2k and get $100 back in whatever crap they're offering. I used to be a VIP, Chairman, blah blah card holder. I just don't care about it. Maybe it's because I live here. But then again I don't like them tracking my play. It just bothers me. Am I supposed to play $5-10K before getting a "call attendant" payout? I'd rather get more frequent $800 hands. There used to be quite a few nights where I'd cash out of a machine and my print ticket would be $1700-$2500.

Or maybe, just maybe, my luck has turned and I'm a cranky bastard about it. In fact, that's probably more like it.

I just really, really miss those days of walking out with $10G+ every other week.
I live in FLA, so I have to travel to play. I am 7Star with CET and NOIR with MGM. I find that the comps that I receive are the only way of 'closing the gap' on profitability when playing VP or slots.

[onemoretry]

Here's the other thing. I don't play with a players card. I hate them. There's no rational reason for it.
Over the past thirteen years, my wife and I have collected just under $100,000 in cashback, bounceback cash, and bonus cash from our local casino. Playing without a players card would reduce that number to zero.

To me, that's a pretty rational reason to use a players card.

[shinyvegas]

So let's say that during a given year I drop $10K at a particular casino. In one reality I use a players card and another I use nothing. And I play only VP machines. In the one with the card I win $6K in actual payout stubs and get about $1K in machine-playable credit (via Station casinos style).

In the alternate reality I play without a players card and win $8K in cumulative payout stubs.

My argument, if I even have one, is that by tracking your play, the house has a large edge. If they know who you are, they understand your style of play, what your walk-out threshold is, what your cash-out threshold is, etc. They know exactly when to give you a jackpot and when making you lose will make you play more because you're chasing Aces with a kicker. I guess I'm positing the casino can control the play of a machine.

Perhaps I'm paranoid but I've played in both styles. It has been my experience that using a card nets me less larger jackpots. Especially when I play in the high-limit rooms. Coincidence? Of course it could be. There are plenty of players here that have more experience than me that would counter what I say.

I'm just saying I'd trade comps and bounce-back cash for bigger and more frequent VP payouts.

[DezJeep]

So let's say that during a given year I drop $10K at a particular casino. In one reality I use a players card and another I use nothing. And I play only VP machines. In the one with the card I win $6K in actual payout stubs and get about $1K in machine-playable credit (via Station casinos style).

In the alternate reality I play without a players card and win $8K in cumulative payout stubs.

My argument, if I even have one, is that by tracking your play, the house has a large edge. If they know who you are, they understand your style of play, what your walk-out threshold is, what your cash-out threshold is, etc. They know exactly when to give you a jackpot and when making you lose will make you play more because you're chasing Aces with a kicker. I guess I'm positing the casino can control the play of a machine.



Perhaps I'm paranoid but I've played in both styles. It has been my experience that using a card nets me less larger jackpots. Especially when I play in the high-limit rooms. Coincidence? Of course it could be. There are plenty of players here that have more experience than me that would counter what I say.




I think you have some very valid points here. I've often thought the exact same thing. I have watched friends of mine play that are "VIP" card holders and they seem to hit more jackpots (or large hits) than I do as a "Not a VIP" card holder. I think you're onto something.



I'm just saying I'd trade comps and bounce-back cash for bigger and more frequent VP payouts.

[olds442jetaway]

I have to agree that using the card does close the gap in your losses as long as the machines are not rigged and set to pay out less on higher denomination bets. I also agree that I seem to hit way more hands playing one coin and the hits gradually drop off as my bets go up. When I get into the 15-20 quarter range, nothing big ever hits. Otherwise I would have more than one 1200- W-2G for the year. By the way, that one was 1200 on the nose . I also have over 40 trips so far this year to give you a better idea and average 8-16 hours of play a trip. That said, if I play my normal routine as a level 3 player at Mohegan Sun, by the end of the day, I will have 100- free play in my account. Also have accumulated enough points to pay for gas and some mid range food, and most likely have my room rates either comped or close to it.

[BillyJoe]

So let's say that during a given year I drop $10K at a particular casino. In one reality I use a players card and another I use nothing. And I play only VP machines. In the one with the card I win $6K in actual payout stubs and get about $1K in machine-playable credit (via Station casinos style).

In the alternate reality I play without a players card and win $8K in cumulative payout stubs.

My argument, if I even have one, is that by tracking your play, the house has a large edge. If they know who you are, they understand your style of play, what your walk-out threshold is, what your cash-out threshold is, etc. They know exactly when to give you a jackpot and when making you lose will make you play more because you're chasing Aces with a kicker. I guess I'm positing the casino can control the play of a machine.

Perhaps I'm paranoid but I've played in both styles. It has been my experience that using a card nets me less larger jackpots. Especially when I play in the high-limit rooms. Coincidence? Of course it could be. There are plenty of players here that have more experience than me that would counter what I say.

I'm just saying I'd trade comps and bounce-back cash for bigger and more frequent VP payouts.

If you truly believe that a VP machine's payouts can be altered by your using a Player's Card, you should contact the Nevada Gaming Commision immediately and report your findings.
 
At any significant level of play, not receiving earned comps is lost money.