Distressing CET VP Stories

[Tedlark]

  ko king you are right about people, companies, and corporations finding ways around laws and regulations in order to turm a profit. However when a gaming corporation breaks a gaming law or regulation the penalties that could result from getting caught are too severe to take the risk. If a gaming corporation lost their license to operate in a given market the can of worms would open. Other states in which they operate may open their own investigations into them, the resulting bad press and scandal would drive players away from their properties and the result would be going out of business.
 
  It just isn't worth it for a gaming corporation to try and improve their bottom line by cheating.

[Vman96]

  ko king you are right about people, companies, and corporations finding ways around laws and regulations in order to turm a profit. However when a gaming corporation breaks a gaming law or regulation the penalties that could result from getting caught are too severe to take the risk. If a gaming corporation lost their license to operate in a given market the can of worms would open. Other states in which they operate may open their own investigations into them, the resulting bad press and scandal would drive players away from their properties and the result would be going out of business.
 
  It just isn't worth it for a gaming corporation to try and improve their bottom line by cheating.

It doesn't mean they won't cheat, however, because corporations, including casinos are just LOL sometimes.

Now if DaBurglar would say that casinos set their VP machines to lower returns than the paytables dictate because they are cheating bastards that think they will get away with it, then I would be totally fine with it. I just get mad and defensive that he says this is LEGAL under New Jersey law, when it's obviously NOT when you bother to fully interpret all the implications of the law.

Cliff notes: If DaBurglar claims the AC casinos are breaking their own state law, I'm COOL with that! But he claims what they do is LEGAL!!! LOL

[Vman96]

I completely agree with deburgler about the ability to set the vp machine payback below the paytable schedule. I have been going to AC since the late 80's. I also occasionally go to Vegas. I live In Maryland. Several years ago I also contacted what was then the gaming enforcement and was told the exact thing deburlgler was told. I used to win on many occasions playing as high as the $10 levels. The last time I had actually won $7600, was about 4 years ago at Borgata. Now I just get hand after hand of stiff cards. Sure you see an occasional hand pay, but no where near like I have seen in the past. I have won more slot hand pays than vp which lends credibility to what we are saying here. There has and continues to be much talk about these type results not only in ac but also from the locals in Vegas. Can I prove all this ? Of course not but computers being computers one would have to disregard all these veteran players experiences.


I appreciate your statement here...but with the state regulation as written...what do you believe is the state regulation means? Is what happened to you in AC legal in your opinion? Or just bad luck? Brush up on math if you need to, but I hope you don't agree with DaBurglar on his claims legal.

And this post helps prove that paytables force the overall payback:

Back to my original post, I was st Harrahs' 11/14, 10x multiplier day, and it was the first time that the 3 9/6 machines in the triangle at section DD always had empty seats. The little sticker read $50 coin-in to earn one tier point, might have something to do with it.



If they are like what DaBurglar claims, you just set them at 86% or so percent, give full points, and just rake in the money!!!! DaBurglar, I am eagerly waiting your response to this.


And I feel your pain 2222A...because all my play in Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Missouri, Mississippi, and Nevada, which all all states that I have read their laws and have faith in them being "random and fair"...I am pretty sure I am below average lifetime too.   

[chattycattty]

Tedlark,  if the shoe fits wear it. I think you should tone it down and make an attempt to be a nicer person at least on this forum.  Let people post what they want to post. Try to spend less time antagonizing people and if you don't have anything constructive to add keep your opinions to yourself.  Even in my worst nightmares my wife does not like to argue as much as you do.
 
I am not supporting Daburglar.  I happen to love Atlantic City.  And yes, I am a relatively new member.  That does not give you the right to pounce on me.  I personally have a lot to contribute to this forum.  As does Daburglar.  As do you.  As does everybody, rookie or senior member.  Please, stop trying to undermine and suppress peoples opinions. 

[ko king]

  ko king you are right about people, companies, and corporations finding ways around laws and regulations in order to turm a profit. However when a gaming corporation breaks a gaming law or regulation the penalties that could result from getting caught are too severe to take the risk. If a gaming corporation lost their license to operate in a given market the can of worms would open. Other states in which they operate may open their own investigations into them, the resulting bad press and scandal would drive players away from their properties and the result would be going out of business.
 
  It just isn't worth it for a gaming corporation to try and improve their bottom line by cheating.

You're right cheating, getting caught and exposed could be quite costly so I doubt many would outright cheat. I just can't allow myself to believe the industry is clean as a whistle because no other industry exist that can make that claim. I do think the gaming industry could be quite fragile because it's not something most people couldn't do without, protecting the reputation and integrity is something I'm sure casinos, state regulators and all those involved in the industry work hard to do. For that very reason I highly doubt we would ever hear if the reputation or integrity was ever violated, it could be too costly for the industry as a whole and who would or could expose any infraction if it ever occured? Gambling is rarely anything that's done as a group, you're pretty much by yourself, it's not like ten of us will get together and do a study of any particular casinos vp games and confront someone of our findings, it's just not going to happen, you're pretty much on your own. Another thing that concerned me and it may just be that I don't understand the process or the reason but why would there be more than one approved RNG program for DDB vp, a machine tech told me there were around 13 different approved programs, seems to me like one would be more than enough. I don't find a lot of comfort in knowing the state in which I reside is the one looking to protect my gaming interest when just a short time ago it was exposed that they were violatiing the odds and regulations concerning the lottery games here, not the first ones to do that either, the game still goes on like nothing ever happened bcause there's money to made.

[Tedlark]

  ko I agree with most of your last post except for the part about the industry or whomever keeping it quiet when a casino corp is found to be breaking gaming regulations. If I were a competing casino corp. I would want it to be known because it could very well bring more patrons to my operation(s).

[Tedlark]

chattycatty I am polite on the forum to most but DaBurglar is the exception. Twice you have made negative comments directed at me and I have not retaliated in any manner towards you. When I reply in a negative manner to DaBurglar it is by intent; his negative outlook on gaming in AC has not changed nor has he brought any new information to back his position. If you review some of his posts, he merely reposts old posts as new. He also will change the course of a forum topic by steering it toward his AC gaming rant and that is why I suggest he get his own forum topic started where he can then post anti AC rants instead of posting them into any forum topic that has AC in it.

[BillyJoe]

yeah jeter, they are getting desperate at Caesars Entertainment properties, the comps are drying up so fast I see a huge bankruptcy reorganization on the horizon for the corporation that operates all Caesars properties.
I am not sure where you get your info, Burglar, but the last time I looked, CET was BUYING, not SELLING. Corporations the size of CET don't buy with their own money, they secure money from the financial markets. People in those markets do not lend money to companies on the verge of bankruptcy.
 
It is true, as a 7Star for many years, I have seen a steady reduction in some comps, but I have also seen additional comps added (multiple NCL cruises, achievement levels for Diamond members).  
 
As far as casinos setting machines below the Expected Return from the paytables, why would they ? The BEST return game, if you can find it, is probably 9/6 JoB. That's a 99.5% return IF, and only IF, everyone plays max coin and perfect strategy all the time. So let's do some math, with a few assumptions.
 
Let's say people only play JoB on every VP machine, all the time, at the dollar level, and the casino has 30 VP single line machines. Let's say they average 2 hands a minute, and the machine is in play 20 hours a day. The absolute WORSE the casino will make is $60,000 A DAY on those VP machines. 
 
Now, we all know, very few people play perfect strategy, some will not play max coin and most will play a lower return game. So WHY would the casino need to do anything but empty the money hoppers each night?

[chattycattty]

Tedlark, it does no good to criticize his, mine or anyone else's opinions.  Nothing you can put into words is going to change his feelings on the matter.  By dissecting it and responding in your own version of the facts all you do is antagonize him and add fuel to his fire.
 
I for one would like to feel that I am free to post any opinion I want on this forum.  I think we need to encourage more people to post on this forum and I think they would if when they stopped by for a view they did not see all this bickering.
 
We need to have intelligent discussions about video poker.  I personally am interested in any issue regarding CET properties.  Currently they are changing out there VP machines throughout the country and I am interested in how it is going to impact my strategy going forward.  I am interested in  the fact that CET has cut back everyone's free play and am wondering if this is just a temporary thing.  I am wondering what is in store next year with CET for both their diamond and 7 star programs.
 
These are just some of the issues I am interested in.  Everyone has their own issues they are interested in as it relates to their video poker experience.  Daburglar has his. If you are convinced that he is a menace to this forum send a private message to webman and try not to let him get under your skin.  Going forward, let us all try to get along. 

[chattycattty]

Billyjoe, have you heard any rumors or speculations as to whether CET is going to change their 7 star program for next year?  This year with the tier bonuses it was much easier to reach 150,000 than it was last year to reach 100,000.  It would be interesting to know how many more 7 star players they have as compared to this time last year.
 
Overall if a person has the time and flexability to travel, CET has the best players card program out there.  With the ease of becoming 7 star I hope they do not water down the program next year.