Distressing CET VP Stories

[Tedlark]

chattycatty I too am interested in some of the same casino, specifically CET properties, issues that you are. DaBurglar DOES NOT get under my skin and I only take offense when he attacks me personally. I only respond to his posts when he includes half truths, misinformation and the like in them. When he does post misinformation and half truths is may cause confusion to someone here who reads his post and may not understand that the information is wrong. I am a logical person and I deal in fact, not half truths or wrong information. I had until recently, scaled back my responses to DaBurglar's posts because I don't like to feed his fire but in some instances I need to respond. There have been a few others recently who have also responded to DaBurglar's posts by telling the facts or the whole story.
 
  I have sent webman pm's in the past when DaBurglar attached me personally and I'm quite sure that if he called you gay then you respond in the same manner as I do. For the record I am not gay and if he were somewhere close I would confront him face to face. His being afflicted by a physical handicap does not give him the right to attack me like that and he, most of all, should understand that.

[chattycattty]

Good luck to the two of you working out your differences.  I think the best you can hope for is to agree to disagree.  Moving forward, have you heard any rumors or word as to what CET is going to do with their diamond and 7 star program next year?  CET is constantly moving the cheese and I am sure that this coming year will be no exception.

[BillyJoe]

Billyjoe, have you heard any rumors or speculations as to whether CET is going to change their 7 star program for next year?  This year with the tier bonuses it was much easier to reach 150,000 than it was last year to reach 100,000.  It would be interesting to know how many more 7 star players they have as compared to this time last year.
 
Overall if a person has the time and flexability to travel, CET has the best players card program out there.  With the ease of becoming 7 star I hope they do not water down the program next year.
I have heard nothing specific regarding changes, CC. The change that they made this year, no doubt, will be evaluated. They obviously wanted to incsent folks to play longer each day. For those of us that are not local, and need to travel to every CET gaming location in order to play, it did not change my play habits at all. I, for one, saw that change as a positive, and reaped the benefits, having reached Level III (300k TC) this year.
 
They may make 7Star an "invitation only" level again, which is what MGM did with NOIR. We will see...

[DaBurglar]

Billyjoe:   CET is shackled with HUGE, unsustainable debt.....you state they are "buying"?   Not recently....up until 2009  CET was indeed on a spending spree, acquiring a lot of places and spending freely, and then the economy stayed in the dumper, the US gaming market was revealed to be extremely mature and no longer growing, so CET is now mired in debt.  Only way out is through massive cost cutting (i.e. good bye comps) or bankruptcy reorganization.  Vman:  As I stated numerous times already, AC's  VP machines are set anywhere from the maximum of the paytable all the way down to 83%.   That means SOME VP machines at least will be set exactly where you and I and any other VP player would expect them, exactly what the paytable says.  Clearly then, the 3 machines in Harrah's bank of 9/6 JOB machines are left alone to pay the expected 99.54%....but as such, Harrah;s takes the next step and slashes/eliminates players earning comps on such machines, so a player has to choose:  Do I play this advantage machine and be satisfied with my potential "winnings" at the cost of any comps, or do I choose one of their other VP machines (say all the 7/5 BP games) which will return anywhere from 97% all the way down to 83% but I will still earn my comps. Why is that so hard to understand?   AC is in the crapper economically, so it is attempting to squeeze a few extra bucks profit from its VP crowd.      And as to "WHY DONT THEY SET ALL VP MACHINES TO great paytables and internally have the machines return 83%?"    well duh....if they did that with every VP machine it would soon be REALLY obvious something like that had been done and then ALL VP players would leave.  And as my final post directed at tedlark....Frankly I dont get how or why you feel the way you do, other than you must be a really sensitive and/or narcissitic egocentric person....your last few posts above make it seem like in all my posts on this forum I was addressing and talking ONLY TO YOU;  You totally distort my posting history with your rant that all I post is "half truths" and misinformation and unjust complaints about AC......says you.  thats your opinion obviously, but I am sure some people enjoy my posts (whether they agree or disagree with me.)  So I dont think it is right to deny my posts to other people who got to AC regularly and know exactly where I am coming from, or who find my posts informative or interesting, just because YOU dont like what I write or how I write it, and have taken it upon yourself to "teach me a lesson and show me the error of my ways."     I think if Webman or the powers that be really truly had a problem with what I write I would have been turned off a long time ago, but I think they see what you cannot, that I am really not as bad or as awful as you attempt to portray me.     I'm sorry you are so easily bugged and feel I am polluting this forum, that was never my intent.     Just leave me alone and I will do the same.  And for anyone else wondering, AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE,  I like the city of AC, the boardwalk, the beach, the atmosphere, the FOOD, and as of late my PRIMARY focus has been on playing actual real POKER tournaments.....since early this year (January-ish)  my VP play has been as an afterthought and/or to kill time and keep the minimum comp levels needed for free rooms so I can keep going to AC for all the other NON-VP reasons!!!!   jeezus, why is that so hard to get????    And just because I now only "dabble" in VP doesnt mean I still cant notice whats going on or try my best to win at it!   And why is this anyone else's concern anyway????   

[chattycattty]

Billyjoe, congrats on reaching 300,000.  I am currently  at about 250,000 and do not see an incentive to go higher.   What do you get at level 3 that you do not get at level 2?  We do have Vegas and Tahoe  trips booked for December.   Probably will gamble some but not like we would if we were building tier credit towards 7 star.  What do you mean 7 star by invitation only?  I have never gambled seriously at MGM so I am not familiar with what you are referring to.

[ko king]

  ko I agree with most of your last post except for the part about the industry or whomever keeping it quiet when a casino corp is found to be breaking gaming regulations. If I were a competing casino corp. I would want it to be known because it could very well bring more patrons to my operation(s).

I can't really think of any casino getting caught for breaking the rules in modern day times, that in itself seems odd to me considering the track record all the other industries have. Maybe they're all clean as a whistle but since I'm obviously a betting man I'd have to wager against it. I trust the big casinos in highly competitive areas far more than what I call neighborhood casinos.

[DaBurglar]

When you consider the sheer size of some of these organizations, and the size of these casinos and all the people they employ and departments, I think it is far more likely that, in the case where a rule or regulation or law is being broken (or simply not followed), it is due to simple oversight or human error.   There is too much going on and too many people for there not to be a mistake or two being committed here or there.....and then when you do add into the mix human greed and malfeasance and malice and selfishness, then it becomes inevitable that some casino, somewhere is doing something wrong (or "bad") Casinos are highly regulated, but so are many many other industries, like medical manufacturing, aviation, drugs (the legal kind lol), and yet every now and then we hear about some problem within those indistries.....with casinos, sometimes we hear about it and sometimes we dont, but I contend we do hear about most of them at the LOCAL level at least....that is to say, problems in a Reno casino tend to only be well known in and around Reno, etc.    Like I said many times before, it is truly an act of faith that we play and gamble in any given casino and trust that the game(s) are on the level, and trust that our winnings (if we are lucky) WILL in fact be paid!    It never ceases to amaze me how many people STILL do not understand that CASINOS are in fact PRIVATE PROPERTY, and that they can refuse to server, or even PAY anyone at any given time that they choose......now granted, in the case of honoring vouchers or chips, unless cheating or crime is suspected, if a casino refuses to honor something they will have to face the reulatory authorities if the person presses the issue so the reason had better be legit, but until or unless someone presses the issue of a ticket or chip not being honored, you and I could very be left without being paid if a Casino so chooses.    Again, its all about faith. Of course, evem when we sit down at a restaurant or diner for a delicious burger, we take it as a matter of faith that no one in the kitchen is spitting in our food, or we take it as faith that our delicious burger is IN FACT A BURGER, and NOT a delicious RAT or rotten piece of pork or whatever.   We take it as faith when we drive that the other driver is going to stay in his lane and drive safely.   We take it as faith that an airline pilot is sober and NOT half in the BAG.   

[BillyJoe]

Billyjoe:   CET is shackled with HUGE, unsustainable debt.....you state they are "buying"?   Not recently....up until 2009  CET was indeed on a spending spree, acquiring a lot of places and spending freely, and then the economy stayed in the dumper, the US gaming market was revealed to be extremely mature and no longer growing, so CET is now mired in debt.  Only way out is through massive cost cutting (i.e. good bye comps) or bankruptcy reorganization.
Burglar - here are some facts. Not mentioned in this article is the investment that CET is making in the new AC Convention Center near Harrahs AC...
November 16, 2013 - 5:19pm  Las Vegas Review-Journal
For Gary Loveman, bankruptcy is not an option.

Loveman, chairman of Caesars Entertainment Corp., admits the casino operator has “a very complicated capital structure” in carrying the gaming industry’s largest long-term debt figure.
However, the company has undertaken several refinancing steps that increased its cash on hand to $2 billion, extended debt maturity dates and opened a corporate growth vehicle that allows Caesars to participate in gaming expansion over the next few years.
During an interview at his Caesars Palace corporate office this past week, Loveman said a bankruptcy reorganization is not in the cards for the company, which operates more than 50 casinos in 13 states including 10 properties on or near the Strip.
“The conditions the company faces today are better and not worse than they have been before,” Loveman said. “We don’t have any significant debt maturities until 2018. We’re much better structured. There is nothing that would trigger a liquidity crisis. We don’t have anything like that.”

Caesars’ current debt-to-equity structure was no mistake. The debt, Loveman said, was put in place “by design” when private equity groups TPG Capital and Apollo Global Management in January 2008 took the company private through a $30.7 billion leveraged buyout.
He said the debt served a purpose. By placing a high amount of debt on top of a limited equity pool, it was expected cash flow from the business would increase the company’s value, “disproportionately to the equity.”

The company’s debt is about $4 billion less than it was in 2008, but the equity value has also declined, primarily because of the recession.
“The company has an enterprise value that is second only to Las Vegas Sands or MGM (Resorts International) depending upon the day,” Loveman said, referring to fluctuating bond and stock markets. “The company is one of the most valuable casino companies in the world, but the split between debt and equity is disproportionately debt versus equity.”
Rolling forward to 2013, Caesars has grown. The company bought Planet Hollywood Resort by acquiring the hotel-casino’s debt at a discount; opened the 668-room Octavius Tower at Caesars Palace; built two casinos in Ohio in partnership with Rock Gaming; and is building a $400 million casino in Baltimore.
On the Strip, the company is completing the $550 million Linq project, which includes renovation of The Quad (formerly the Imperial Palace) and the centerpiece High Roller Observation Wheel. The $185 million transformation of Bill’s Gamblin’ Hall into a boutique luxury hotel is also underway.

The other step in the company’s new corporate structure was creation of Caesars Acquisition Co. to seize expansion opportunities.
Caesars Entertainment owns 57 percent of the new company and holds an option to buy back the rest in three years. Caesars stockholders who chose to participate in a stock sale were able to purchase one share of the holding company for each share they owned in the parent company.
The move raised more than $1.17 billion and placed ownership of Planet Hollywood Resort, Caesars’ interactive gaming division and the under-construction Baltimore casino into Caesars Acquisition.
Apollo and TPG put $500 million into the creation of Caesars Acquisition to “attract like-minded investors,” Loveman said.
Caesars Acquisition provides a way for the parent company to jump into new markets — Caesars is already being linked to a casino project in upstate New York — and avoid adding to the debt.

[BillyJoe]

Billyjoe, congrats on reaching 300,000.  I am currently  at about 250,000 and do not see an incentive to go higher.   What do you get at level 3 that you do not get at level 2?  We do have Vegas and Tahoe  trips booked for December.   Probably will gamble some but not like we would if we were building tier credit towards 7 star.  What do you mean 7 star by invitation only?  I have never gambled seriously at MGM so I am not familiar with what you are referring to.


For me, CC, the only thing that I have not done that is on the list for a Tier III 7Star benefit is the private box at a Memphis Grizzlies basketball game, staying in Tunica, with golf thrown in. I am not a basketball fan, so this will be a new experience for me, something I would probably not do without this benefit. There are some other nice things on the Tier III list, but I have already participated in the rest of them.
 
As I said, the new bonus Tier incentive really has not changed my gaming habits at all, but I have earned more Tier Credits than usual.
 
7Star has always, technically, been 'invitation only', allowing CET to not award you that status, even if you earned the required points, if they feel you are bad business, such as a record of disruptive behavior or unpaid markers.
 
For MGM, the previous year was an announced 1mil Tier Credits for NOIR. They run Oct to Oct. This past Oct, they wanted to limit the number of NOIR players, so they had no set Tier Credit level to achieve. The rumor was that you would only be considered if you had 2mil in TC. I had 1.9mil, but they awarded me NOIR. Input from properties that you frequent in the MGM fold apparently played a role in receiving a NOIR invitation this year.

[Tedlark]

  great article about Caesars billyjoe, thank you for sharing.