It's Vegas Baby!!

[FAA]

To some it's all about the money, to some it's about experiencing
jackpots and to others it may be about playing all day on a budget.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Excellent encapsulation. I must work much harder to fall firmly into Option 1. Hell, a jackpot would be incredible. But at a couple of hundred dollars profit on my budget, it is time to head anywhere as long as I leave all casinos for the day.

[markinca]

Obviously, anyone can play any way they wish with their own money.  What I object to is someone being called "bad" or undisciplined because they knowingly and intentionally make changes to mathematically correct strategy for their own purposes.  To me a bad player is someone who does not take the time to understand odds, will play any game without knowing how to play it and picks cards based on hunches or superstitions.  If you understand good VP principals and choose to vary from the math you are not necessarily a bad player, you are modifying the game to fit your personal desires. 












Ok, so just to make sure I understand, someone who makes an incorrect play because they don't know what the correct play is and they're just playing a hunch for fun is a bad player, but someone who does know the correct play but chooses to make the identical incorrect play because of personal desires is not a bad player?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=markinca]Ok, so just to make sure I understand, someone who makes an incorrect
play because they don't know what the correct play is and they're just
playing a hunch for fun is a bad player, but someone who does know the
correct play but chooses to make the identical incorrect play because of
personal desires is not a bad player?[/quote]Actually I don't think there are any "bad" players.  I only used that word because others used it.  I do think there are uninformed players.  It all depends upon what you want from the game, money or something else.  For some people the objective of playing video poker is not profit alone.  Everyone likes to win of course, but they want to on their own terms.

[markinca]

Actually I don't think there are any "bad" players.  I only used that word because others used it.  I do think there are uninformed players.  It all depends upon what you want from the game, money or something else.  For some people the objective of playing video poker is not profit alone.  Everyone likes to win of course, but they want to on their own terms.  




Fair enough.  Can't argue with that.

[FloridaPhil]

Professionals screw up our brains by telling us the only thing that
matters in VP is making money.  I like money, but I play for relaxation
and VP is cheap recreation as far as I'm concerned.  We all want to be
better at everything we do, but our scoreboards are not the same.

[OTABILL]

Professionals screw up our brains by telling us the only thing that
matters in VP is making money.  I like money, but I play for relaxation
and VP is cheap recreation as far as I'm concerned.  We all want to be
better at everything we do, but our scoreboards are not the same.



Quite frankly, I agree with most everything you have been posting about why you play and your bjectiveo. Well said.

[olds442jetaway]

I have posted my objective and perspective (shared by my wife) when going to a local casino for an evening or Vegas/Laughlin etc. for a vacation numerous times on this forum. It is for entertainment, fun -- basically having a good time. Apparently, the idea of spending money for gambling, etc, regardless of the prospects of coming out ahead monetarily is considered anathema by some on this forum. That's ok. Different strokes for different folks. All I ask is you respect our view even if you disagree. But when someone ridicules or is condescending to us, that's what I find repulsive. Do "you" react the same way to someone who spends $1,000 for a pair of tickets to go to a Barbra Streisand concert. How about, going to the Super Bowl. At least gambling, we may break even or perhaps win some money. No prospect of that outcome after seeing Streisand, or Madonna, etc. Of course we want to win while gambling, and do our best to accomplish that result. But to reiterate, our primary "objective" is entertainment. That's why I say spending money, not losing money and why we, and others, call ourselves recreational players.
    

     I agree completely OTB. The entire casino experience for the wife and I is what it is all about. ( less the smoke of course). First we have made some lifelong friends from both players and employees. Just using Mohegan Sun as an example, the rooms and views are beautiful. You don't have to cook at home and can choose from so many menu options. The shopping and shows are always there to be enjoyed too. Playing itself while creating its own stress at times, does make you forget about all of life's other stresses while you are in this different world. Winning of course is great, but the bottom line is the getting away, relaxing, and enjoying everything while you are there is number one. I think Mr. and Mrs. Phil will agree on this too.

[billryan]

It's not a matter of playing to make money. It's about making correct plays.Math is math. Spelling is spelling.It's either right or its not.
Nothing to do with being professional.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]It's not a matter of playing to make money. It's about making correct
plays.Math is math. Spelling is spelling.It's either right or its not.
Nothing to do with being professional.[/quote]You are entitled to your own opinions.  As long as you respect the opinions of those who may disagree, I'm fine with them.

[Vman96]

Obviously, anyone can play any way they wish with their own money.  What I object to is someone being called "bad" or undisciplined because they knowingly and intentionally make changes to mathematically correct strategy for their own purposes.  To me a bad player is someone who does not take the time to understand odds, will play any game without knowing how to play it and picks cards based on hunches or superstitions.  If you understand good VP principals and choose to vary from the math you are not necessarily a bad player, you are modifying the game to fit your personal desires.  Let me give you an example.  Suppose you went to the casino and they had a special offer that day.  The casino was giving away a cruise to "YouPickIt" for the most quad 7s.   Your dream was to go on a cruise to "YouPickIt".   The rest of the players in the casino were pros and could care less about a cruise to "YouPickIt".   You went against the math and you won the cruise.   Were you a bad player for going against the math so you could go to "YouPickIt"?   Heck no!   You knew the odds, made your own decision about what was important to you and you won.   Did the pros in the room think you were bad, stupid or undisciplined?  Perhaps, unless they knew how much you wanted to win that cruise.   Players play VP for all kinds of reasons and many want something different from the game than you do.  To some it's all about the money, to some it's about experiencing jackpots and to others it may be about playing all day on a budget.  It's all good as long as you get your money's worth.  Before you call anyone on this forum a "Bad Player", maybe you should ask them what they are trying to accomplish first? 


Interesting contest that you fully made up I'm guessing. In that case I would be playing "Wild Sevens" if available, allowed, and the cruise was worth it to me of course.

This theoretical contest interested me enough to do some number crunching on it of what you might expect on going for quad 7s. If Wild Sevens is available and allowed, it helps your chances of winning mildly. Going for quad 7s at all costs is quite costly though.

The "Airport" paytable of wild 7s (available at Horseshoe and Roadhouse Tunica) pays back 96.83% and the probability of 4 7s is 1 in 5049 with optimal play. They also have 8/5 Jacks (97.3%) on the same machines and the probability of 4 7s there is 1 in 5687. So playing wild 7s would increase you hitting 4 7s by 12.6% over 8/5 Jacks.

What is maximum probability of making four 7s by holding only 7s and nothing else in any game? 1 in 3384. Which definitely wouldn't be enough of an improvement to guarantee a person of winning the contest with their strategy adjustment.

But play that strategy on an 8/5 JoB machine and you'll return 34.97% on that machine. If you had to play all day for the contest, you're better paying off for the cruise in that scenario obviously. If you held just wild cards in a "Sevens Wild" game, it would roughly be 58% return instead, still not that great. Strategy adjustments can only improve your chances of making a rare hand so much. In this case going for 7s at all costs makes 7s appear 68% more frequently than standard JoB strategy. But it will cost you over $3000 on average over 4000 max quarter hands playing that strategy.

Same idea with the "Royal or Nothing" strategy, that's 1 in 23,081 for the maximum possible chance at a Royal and it's quite costly to play that way under non-tournament/promotional play.