Colorado casinos - defective machines

[oej719]

Just read a article from the Denver Post on recent fines just issued to 5 colorado casinos for cheating. Read it for yourself if you still think regulations will keep casino's from playing by the rules. Do you really think a $3000 or $5000 fines will keep them from screwing the
public. Here is the website for the article.
 
http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_4472510
 
 
Here is the article in text form
 
Casinos told to ante up fines

Defective or illegal slot machines are found in five businesses, and the state is investigating eight others.

By Andy Vuong
Denver Post Staff Writer
DenverPost.com
 
Colorado regulators have levied more than $110,000 in fines against five casinos for having defective or illegal slot machines, the first-ever state penalties for such violations.
 
The largest fine, $87,500, was issued against the owners of the newest casino in Central City, Century Casino, for having five slot machines that allowed gamblers to wager more than the state's $5 bet limit.
 
The Division of Gaming also uncovered 47 slots at four other casinos that had defective software. The glitches either caused the machines to clear their games-played memory, which affects the number of times they pay out, or left the slots vulnerable to cheating.
 
The division is investigating cases involving eight other casinos that could lead to fines, spokesman Don Burmania said Tuesday. There are 46 casinos in the state.
 
Gaming Division director Ron Kammerzell wrote in an October industry newsletter that he was "both perplexed and disappointed that division staff have discovered so many instances of noncompliance of late."
 
Under rule changes that took effect May 30, the Gaming Division no longer inspects new slot machines before they are placed on the gaming floor.
 
Instead, the casinos are left to ensure that their machines comply with state standards. Regulators then check the new machines within 90 days.
 
"We have three compliance investigators covering more than 15,000 machines," Burmania said. "The casino industry was kind of complaining that they had to wait for us. We said 'All right, you can check your own machines."'
 
Century Casino general manager David Aker said Tuesday the company bought more than 200 used slots from Gulf Coast casinos, which were devastated by Hurricane Katrina. Of those, five video poker machines had software that allowed gamblers to bet more than the $5 legal limit.
 
"They just got overlooked," Aker said. "They were on the floor for less than a week when they were discovered."
 
The $50 million casino opened in July, a month earlier than planned.
 
"They were in a hurry to open and were extremely careless," Burmania said.
 
Since regulators no longer have the pressure of checking new machines immediately, they've had time to re-check older machines for compliance, Burmania said.
 
Regulators fined Colorado Central Station in Black Hawk $15,000 for having 18 defective slots. The glitches would occasionally clear the machine's memory of the number of games played and the times it has paid out. State statutes require slots to pay out at least 80 percent of wagers placed.
 
Regulators also fined the Double Eagle casino in Cripple Creek $4,500 for having 15 machines that had glitches that left them vulnerable to cheating. The Riviera Black Hawk was fined $3,000 for having 10 similar machines and the Isle of Capri Casino in Black Hawk $1,200 for four machines.
 
The Gaming Division ordered those casinos to remove the defective slots in 2003, when an independent testing company told regulators of the glitches. The division didn't follow up on the order until this summer.
 
Double Eagle and Riviera were fined in August. The Isle of Capri, Colorado Central Station and Century Casinos were fined last month.
 
Pete Savage, general manager of the Riviera, declined to comment. Officials with Double Eagle, Isle of Capri and Colorado Central Station didn't return calls seeking comment.
 
Fine breakdown
 
Five Colorado casinos have been fined $111,200 by state regulators for illegal or defective slot machines:
 
Century Casino, Central City
5 illegal slots
Fine: $87,500
 
Colorado Central Station, Black Hawk
18 defective slots
Fine: $15,000
 
Double Eagle, Cripple Creek
15 defective slots
Fine: $4,500
 
Riviera Black Hawk, Black Hawk
10 defective slots
Fine: $3,000
 
Isle of Capri, Black Hawk
4 defective slots
Fine: $1,200
 
 
--------------------------webman merged from another post---------------------
 
What? Why? Is not anyone interested in reading  or commenting on the above article?
 
We all should be aware as gamblers that we are not always given as fair a deal as we think just because so-called regulations are in place.
 
I personally will not go to a casino that has violated the rules, I don't care if it was an accident or what ever excuse they offer.
My question is do you know if your casino is honest even if they have REGULATIONS to go by.

[Eduardo]

Yes that is a little scary but what that article is about is regulations being enforced. That is why they are enforced. To keep things better.It is sad that sometimes people might cheat and even some casinos but at least we see that they are caught just like crimes. So really that should make us feel a little safer no? Plus when really reading that article it does not look like anything was done on purpose to cheat people here. The machines were defective and the casinos did not fight any issues that I see and removed them. I guess I just can't get too upset about defective machines since I have had ATMs not work for me before and it didn't make me stop going to bank. Its not like these machines had their payouts manipulated to cheat people at least from what I can tell. In fact some of the machines appear to have been removed because they could let customers cheat on them!Very good article though and I am glad you shared it. You should have made it a own topic instead of having in this long topic and more people would see it.

[oej719]

Come come now Eduardo. I too have had problems with Atm's but the bank always makes things right. Do you think the casino's are going to give cheated patrons their money back? Defective machine does not mean it did not operate or the buttons did not work. It means the program was defective the payouts were not being made properly. All to the casinos favor. Some of these casinos were told to remove these machines back in 2003, but did not.
Another point Eduardo, tell me how a patron can cheat a coin- less ticket in - ticket out machine, which is what all the fined casinos have.
These are big corporations. Surely casino operators know the rules.
That is the first step before you ever get a license.
 
Also 5 casinos were fined, another 8 are under investigation. Heck there are just only about 25  or so casinos in the whole state. Some of the fines were only $1200 - $4000. I know people with traffic tickets higher than that. I say close them down for 30 days. Really get in there pocketbooks that will stop there cheating

[Eduardo]

Oh I am not arguing or trying to get anybody off the hook here. I am
just trying to make sure I understand. It is not the same thing as ATMs
so maybe not a good example but I also do not see things in that
article where casinos might have been trying to cheat or even any
evidence that players actually lost any money. Only that the machines
did not live up to the codes.

It says "Regulators also fined the Double Eagle casino in Cripple Creek $4,500
for having 15 machines that had glitches that left them vulnerable to
cheating."
I guess I read that as the game wasn't working right and people could
cheat on them. But maybe it meant the casino could I do not know but it
doesn't look like that is what happened or there would be more serious
accusations I think.

The other example was machines allowed to bet over the $5 legal limit.
While this is against the regulations it still doesn't cheat anyone out
of any money. So it is correct that they were fined but I do not think
people who played on those machines were cheated in any way, at least
there is no evidence to suggest that here or am I missing something.

Yes it is certainly something to be aware of but we need to see more
what the facts are and not interpret wrong what a "defective machine"
means.

[vpguy3]

I have to agree with 719; gaming is a multi-billion $ business, fines of a few thousand $'s would actually encourage casinos to cheat. I wonder how many thousands those casinos made on the bad machines before they were caught? If you want to keep them honest hit them where it really hurts, the bottom line. I don't believe in defective machines only defective management. I have no plans to ever gamble in Colorado...anywhere.

[Eduardo]

It is not a multi-billion dollar business for any of these particular individual casinos I would not think but i do not know how big they are.  Also where does it say that the casinos likely made money off the bad machines?  that is the part I am still trying to figure out.I see where it says records were cleared every so often by the defect so that makes it hard to tell how much might have paid out but do we know it happened.  Obviously that is why records are kept so it is bad but I'm trying to figure out how bad. The error of letting people bet more than the max seemss more like a state issue than something that would hurt the player who wanted to bet more.Is there any more information on this somewhere that says how much they think might have been lost or could have been lost by these errors?

[oej719]

Eduardo,
These casino's in Colorado are not Indian casino's. They are also owned by the same corpoations that own the casinos in Vegas and other places.  Looks like a billion dollar business to me. Here are the stats right  off the state gaming commission website.






Statewide Gaming Statistics, Gaming Year 2006-2007




 
JULY
AUGUST
TOTAL

Slots Total
17,096
17,228
34,324

Coins In
1,146,177,425.92
1,059,124,974.09
2,205,302,400.01

AGP
71,618,597.39
66,282,491.43
137,901,088.82

Avg Daily AGP
136.07
126.45
132.10

Hold %
6.25%
6.26%
6.25
 

[Eduardo]

Hey how do they guarantee 80% payout for machines any way?  it doesn't sound like the RNG applies in Colorado?

[vpguy3]

Bottom line..they got caught; these guys and women are pros and should have known EXACTLY what was going on in their casino. Curious how not one of them wanted to comment. I choose to believe they did know and chose to "wait and see"!!! The Colorado Gaming Division also needs to take responsibility for not managing their enforcement and protecting consumers; this has to be part of their core mission. What a mess.

[Eduardo]

Yes. A seemingly big mess and I would guess we have not heard the last of it.