Help me understand
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- Video Poker Master
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The machines aren't set to pay back an exact percentage. They are set to a certain pay table that will pay out an estimated amount over time. Different machines have different payouts over time but in the long run they average out based on the pay table. Machines get a lot of play over time.
Casinos have to be prepared for a machine to pay out a huge hit ($100,000 on STP for instance) multiple times. But this is so infrequent and the machines are profitable enough that they manage.
No different from other games. Someone could possibly roll snakeyes 10 times in a row on a craps table while betting on it. Highly unlikely, but possible. That doesn't mean that a casino can not estimate the return on the game over time, or that the game is somehow programmed for a specific exact return.
It's the very nature of games of chance. Everyone has the same chance of winning big, but the casinos get so much play that they have a really, really good idea of how much profit they will take in from the crowd.
Casinos have to be prepared for a machine to pay out a huge hit ($100,000 on STP for instance) multiple times. But this is so infrequent and the machines are profitable enough that they manage.
No different from other games. Someone could possibly roll snakeyes 10 times in a row on a craps table while betting on it. Highly unlikely, but possible. That doesn't mean that a casino can not estimate the return on the game over time, or that the game is somehow programmed for a specific exact return.
It's the very nature of games of chance. Everyone has the same chance of winning big, but the casinos get so much play that they have a really, really good idea of how much profit they will take in from the crowd.
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- Video Poker Master
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Also, if you put $100 in a machine, you cannot expect to get $91 back. Not at all. If a million people play $100,000,000 then the casino can expect to bring in roughly $9,000,000. But the results of all the individuals are going to vary greatly. That's the fun of it all. You could be the one that's on the up-side... or not.
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Payback being discussed is a one time coin thru the machine? Multiple same coin thru wins included, in the fullness of time, often results in zero actual return or 91% of coin in divided by 91% and each successive play of coin in divided by 91% of return = 0 with less than perfect strategy or less than average luck short term in any given session, all things being equal . Rarely does a player only play coin once thru and stop. During practice I only stop when the credits read zero or I'm ahead 50%.
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- Video Poker Master
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pokeherguy, are you aware of how casinos adjust the total return on a roulette table? Or blackjack? It's still a random game.
You are being thrown off by the fact that it's a machine game, but the laws state the payouts must match those as if it were being played with real cards from a dealer.
You are being thrown off by the fact that it's a machine game, but the laws state the payouts must match those as if it were being played with real cards from a dealer.
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- Video Poker Master
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{By law the games are only required to payback 83% over the life of the machine but the manufacture actually set the machines to payback at the rate of 91% in order to stay competitive with other casinos in the region. In other words if you put $100 dollars in a machine you can expect to get back $91 thats is of corse if you don't plug your winnings back into the machine.}
This sounds like a general statement applying to both slots and VP. As already mentioned the VP paybacks are determined by the paytables. With slots the payback can be set to whatever the casino wants.
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I was in a hurry this afternoon when I posted this inquiry and I didn't have access to the whole story. It came about when a sales rep and some of his buddies stopped by my shop and started talking about casinos. I have now read the article concerning the subject matter thanks to the link provided by one of the guys. They are not big believers in using the word random in reference to the particular casino they were refering to and I'm just not educated enough on the subject to provide answers. The first part of my post was the guys question and the part in quotation marks came from something he read. I have to admit though even after reading the actual article I still don't know how to provide an answer if and when I see him again. Best I can tell though is they were probably talking about slots like shadowman said. I also gave them this site so they could join and find out for themselves.
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- Video Poker Master
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Post the link and we can add our varied perspectives.
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- Video Poker Master
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That's strange wording in that law in Arkansas that was quoted. It seems to me that true slots are not encompassed in that law! I wonder if it was a mis quote?"By law, electronic games of skill at Southland and Oaklawn are required
to pay out at a rate of 83 percent or more over the life of a machine."Slots can only be considered "games of skill" if there is some mechanism built in that allows players to "stop" the reels manually. That might be expanded by machines that give bonus rounds that provide some manual control of the outcome by skillful play such as "pong" or some of the other similar type machines. But slots that are operated simply by pressing a "spin" button are not games of skill.VP however, is I think considered a game of skill. That law in Arkansas would allow the casino management to set the paytables as low as they wished as long as the Expected Return based on the pay tables was at least 83%. That is assuming though that in Arkansas, "secondary programming" is not legal and that the machine has to emulate play as though the player was playing against an honest dealer and an honest deck of 52 cards shuffled and dealt randomly.But then, I am no lawyer.
to pay out at a rate of 83 percent or more over the life of a machine."Slots can only be considered "games of skill" if there is some mechanism built in that allows players to "stop" the reels manually. That might be expanded by machines that give bonus rounds that provide some manual control of the outcome by skillful play such as "pong" or some of the other similar type machines. But slots that are operated simply by pressing a "spin" button are not games of skill.VP however, is I think considered a game of skill. That law in Arkansas would allow the casino management to set the paytables as low as they wished as long as the Expected Return based on the pay tables was at least 83%. That is assuming though that in Arkansas, "secondary programming" is not legal and that the machine has to emulate play as though the player was playing against an honest dealer and an honest deck of 52 cards shuffled and dealt randomly.But then, I am no lawyer.