Scary...

[roveer]

For kicks I started playing around with Video Poker for Winners.  I usually train on the Videopoker.com iPad app which stops when you have an incorrect hold.  I'm finding differences in my play between the two apps.  The one that has jumped out at me so far is wrap around straights which VPFW says I should be holding and the iPad app does not.  These are mixed suites mind you.  I'm going to compile a list of my bad hands from VPFW and run them through the ipad app to see if it is really happening. Is this possibly a difference between stratedgy and perfect play on VPFW?  So far my percentages are not looking good, so maybe it's time to go back to school.  Really scaring the crap out of me right now. [edit]  I did just notice I was playing double bonus not my usual double double bonus.  Would that make a big difference?  I'm going to investigate further. Roveer 

[Webman]

Some specific examples (naming all 5 cards) would be helpful, as well as the pay table.

[Vman96]

Yes, it's a significant difference. You will hold an open-ended straight draw over a low pair in Double Bonus for example because the straight pays 5 for 1 instead of 4 for 1 in DDB.

[roveer]

Some specific examples (naming all 5 cards) would be helpful, as well as the pay table.


 Using the ipad app (playing DDB set at 99.256%) I tested: 4 of spades, Jack of clubs, 5 of spades, K of spades, 10 of clubs The ipad app accepted holding the Jack and King as correct AND accepted holding the Jack and 10 as correct.   VPFW (DDB, 99.256) said my J K hold was incorrect and that the J 10 hold was correct.  I've trained myself that the J K is correct. I'll compile some more when I have time.  Is it possible to have 2 different hands considered acceptable? Roveer

[BobDancer]

I don't know what the 99.256% version of DDB is. The standard 9/6 version returns 98.98%. In that game JT suited is clearly superior to JK on the hand you mentioned.Whether a suited JT is superior or not to an unsuited KJ depends on whether there is another card in the hand suited with the JT. If there is, hold KJ. If not, hold JT.Looking for flush penalties is more complicated than most recreational players want to deal with. However, if you're going to make one play every time, it's better to always go with a suited JT than an unsuited KJ --- as long as you're playing a version of DDB where the flush returns 6-for-1.If you're playing a version of DDB where flushes only pay 5-for-1 rather than 6-for-1, playing KJ all the time rather than a suited JT makes sense.  Bob

[roveer]

I don't know what the 99.256% version of DDB is. The standard 9/6 version returns 98.98%. In that game JT suited is clearly superior to JK on the hand you mentioned.Whether a suited JT is superior or not to an unsuited KJ depends on whether there is another card in the hand suited with the JT. If there is, hold KJ. If not, hold JT.Looking for flush penalties is more complicated than most recreational players want to deal with. However, if you're going to make one play every time, it's better to always go with a suited JT than an unsuited KJ --- as long as you're playing a version of DDB where the flush returns 6-for-1.If you're playing a version of DDB where flushes only pay 5-for-1 rather than 6-for-1, playing KJ all the time rather than a suited JT makes sense.  Bob


 Bob, Thanks for your input.  I looked back at VPFW.  99.256 is Super Times Pay being played 10 handed in a 9/6 pay table. The percentage changes when you change the bet per hand. What's so problematic to me is that the ipad app accepts either one and has now trained me to hold the KJ.  I think I'm going to need some serious de-programming (remember the 70's).   Let me ask this as a general question.  With training software.  Are there instances (like this one), where it is acceptable to allow two different hands?  I'm thinking no, there's always a superior hold to each combination.  If that is the case, then there are probelms with my ipad app accepting both of these hands as correct. Roveer 

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=BobDancer]I don't know what the 99.256% version of DDB is. The standard 9/6 version returns 98.98%. In that game JT suited is clearly superior to JK on the hand you mentioned.Whether a suited JT is superior or not to an unsuited KJ depends on whether there is another card in the hand suited with the JT. If there is, hold KJ. If not, hold JT.Looking for flush penalties is more complicated than most recreational players want to deal with. However, if you're going to make one play every time, it's better to always go with a suited JT than an unsuited KJ --- as long as you're playing a version of DDB where the flush returns 6-for-1.If you're playing a version of DDB where flushes only pay 5-for-1 rather than 6-for-1, playing KJ all the time rather than a suited JT makes sense.  Bob


 Bob, Thanks for your input.  I looked back at VPFW.  99.256 is Super Times Pay being played 10 handed in a 9/6 pay table. The percentage changes when you change the bet per hand. What's so problematic to me is that the ipad app accepts either one and has now trained me to hold the KJ.  I think I'm going to need some serious de-programming (remember the 70's).   Let me ask this as a general question.  With training software.  Are there instances (like this one), where it is acceptable to allow two different hands?  I'm thinking no, there's always a superior hold to each combination.  If that is the case, then there are probelms with my ipad app accepting both of these hands as correct. Roveer [/QUOTE]
Unless your IPad App is a Clint Eastwood fan. It may be thinking.. "Well, do you feel lucky.. well do you, punk ? "  (Dirty Harry)  BTW, kudos to Bob for providing some specific, thoughtful feedback here.

[OTABILL]

I don't know what the 99.256% version of DDB is. The standard 9/6 version returns 98.98%. In that game JT suited is clearly superior to JK on the hand you mentioned.Whether a suited JT is superior or not to an unsuited KJ depends on whether there is another card in the hand suited with the JT. If there is, hold KJ. If not, hold JT.Looking for flush penalties is more complicated than most recreational players want to deal with. However, if you're going to make one play every time, it's better to always go with a suited JT than an unsuited KJ --- as long as you're playing a version of DDB where the flush returns 6-for-1.If you're playing a version of DDB where flushes only pay 5-for-1 rather than 6-for-1, playing KJ all the time rather than a suited JT makes sense.  Bob


Bob:What about when there is a progressive royal with a 5 coin flush payout? For example when a $.25 progressive royal is $1200 or even $1400. Thanks.

[Vman96]

Bob is totally right here. JTs > KJ generally when flush pays 6 for 1, and generally, KJ > JTs when flush pays 5 for 1. So just keep playing KJ here, roveer, unless you actually start playing 9/6 DDB in the actual casino. Play 9/6 DDB STP in Council Bluffs? haha

Also, I get the impression that the videopoker.com trainer won't correct you if the error is "close". Even though I have never used Bob's program personally, I am very confident every error is at least logged while you play for later review if you aren't being immediately warned. I would use his software for practice first vs. videopoker.com. If he doesn't have STP on his software, it doesn't matter because STP does not effect holding strategy at all.


Bob:What about when there is a progressive royal with a 5 coin flush payout? For example when a $.25 progressive royal is $1200 or even $1400. Thanks.

Then it will depend on how high the Royal payout is along with the flush payout. To get an exact answer, it's best to use a strategy calculator.

[Quad Deuces]

That iPad app is clearly broken and shouldn't be used for serious practice.  Maybe there's a setting for the size of error it flags (who cares about .5% anyway)? :/The calculations and warnings in WinPoker for the iPhone are spot on and identical to VPW.