What's a really high ADT?

[roveer]

So I've been in a bit of a spat with my local casino over my comps and want to have all the ammunition that I can if things turn nasty.

In my hayday I was probably running 150-200k a week through their machines. I'm basing that on how many tier credits I accumulated. Last year it was over 800,000 tier credits with probably 200k coming from bonus credits for earning minimum credits in a single day. So probably around 600,000 tier credits earned. Is there any way to derive a ADT from that information? I have to think I was pretty high on a list of ADT for that property if not the highest. AT one point I was really jamming.

The rift is that my wife takes the kids and gets a 2 bedroom suite. They have room service and watch movies. To them it's a mini vacation. I don't like them doing it as I don't think it's a great environment. They really don't go near the casino but I still am not a big fan. She's taken a few friends once or twice and done the same thing. Probably 6-9 trips total. When she does that there is no play associated with the visit because she doesn't gamble.

Now they are telling me that because there is no play, that they are hitting my account with the full amount of the visit and it's destroyed my comps. Will be like the lowest level player. They never called me in the past to let me know this was going on, not until the account is as they say "destroyed".

I've probably got 60-70 trips in last year and I only stayed maybe 8-10 times total.

As far as I'm concerned, they can go pound salt. Before I ask my host to escort me to Total Rewards to close my account and place me on the "do not pay jackpot list" I want to utilize all of the comps I have. Of course I'll give them the opportunity to reverse their thinking but that probably won't happen.

So, if I were to guesstimate an ADT what would it be and how is it represented?

Roveer

[alpax]

Not that big of a CET expert but in the past posts, Bob Dancer mentions big difference in playing 9/5 Jacks or Better and the 9/6 Jacks or Better. The game selection is one factor. If you look at the Harrah's Lake Tahoe thread, those guys know the ADT of each game is.

ADT is also impacted by the comp offers you've actually used, consuming any will be considered a win. Thus forcing yourself to eat a meal where the coupon is about the expire may be a bad thing. In your case, your wife's visits without play meant you've won and are on a big winning streak to them. So they felt they do not need to compensate you anymore.

I read a post on Alan Best Buy forum where Alan who usually bets big at craps, but the pit boss mistakenly entered a low rolling roulette player (with the same first name) in place of him at CET. Alan saw his offers drop next month significantly due to the low rolling dropping the average.

It seems like another example of CET cutting back this year, sucks that it happened to you and you are well beyond the 7star requirement.

I never went back to CET for 2 years, but in my opinion, CET is only worth it if you plan on wanting the 7star experience trips, nothing more and nothing less.

Added: There is the American Casino Guide video that touches upon this subject.

http://www.americancasinoguide.com/gamb ... ourie.html

[Vman96]

Well it's pretty easy once you figure out your coin in from actual play per gaming day. Problem is with tier bonuses that's all convoluted now.

With your play, I would think if you played there 60 to 70 times in the past year more of your tier credits would be "bonus credits" which mean nothing to ADT. Your initial number of $150k-$200k a week sounds closer if you only made 30 to 40 trips on property. What kind of tier credits do you typically get a day? If it's typically between 2500 and 5000 then more than half of your tier credits are bonus credits.

If you average 15k tier earned a day then you get 22.5k tier after bonus which makes now sense with only 25% of tier credits coming from bonus. But you would only be having 40 trips a year in that case vs. 60 to 70.

It's sorta important to get this estimate as close as possible. And I have a feeling you might be overestimating your coin in per day.

Once you have a daily coin in number, ADT for your game is pretty easy.

ADT = Avg. Daily coin-in x 3%

So if you average $120k coin-in (e.g. 2000 rounds of 10-play STP dollars in one day) your ADT would be:

ADT = $120k x 3% = $3600

Now you can expect CET to give you a percentage back in "comps". Probably anywhere between 25 and 33%, so that would be $900 to $1200.

But ADT gets more heavily weighted toward more recent play, so if they been doing this lately and not playing much, then your overall ADT number will look bad. Because every time she goes you get a big fat zero in ADT if you aren't playing during her stays.

[DaBurglar]

sorry this is happening to you roveer....I assume you are talking about Harrahs AC right?   I would not stress over this too much......if you are going to start a dispute in an attempt to get your host to reverse course, definitely wait until you use up all good comps, BUT another possibility to consider if you really really really want to stay with CET as your primary gambling establishment is to actually visit BOTH CET properties in AC (caesars and Ballys) that you apparently do NOT spend too much time at....ask to speak to one of the big shots there (do it with subterfuge, pretend you are simply there to play, and THEN spring the situation, and your feelings on them).....I have found that even though the properties tend to "THINK" they are on the same team, you often find hosts or executives who will seemingly "go rogue" and act in their OWN individual interest....it sounds like you are definitely a player a host at a rival CET property would love to add......you see where I am going with this strategy.But if this is not possible, or something yoi do not want to attempt, then Iw ould prepare to ditch CET altogether and switch over to Golden Nugget or Borgata......if you have not already, go to the players booth at either place, or ask to speak to the host manager, and have as much info (i.e. PRINTOUTS) from CET/Harrahs and show them who you are and how you play.     Golden Nugget is good because they do have NAtional reach so you would be good if you want to hit Vegas or other area where GN exists....Borgata is not quite as far reaching, but BOYD gaming (the power behind Borgata) is BIG in Vegas obviously and would take care of you if you go to Vegas as well...Its not going to be the same as it was with CET, but you must reconcile the fact that THINGS in general will never be the same, and that Casinos, gaming, and Video Poker are all getting less and less "fun" and fiscally more problematic with the current economic situation of over saturated gaming and more pressure to ONLY do things that yield a PLUS on the bottom line (in other words, no casinos are thinking "LONG term" anymore, its all about profit NOW for THIS Quarter, etc etc)

[roveer]

sorry this is happening to you roveer....I assume you are talking about Harrahs AC right?   I would not stress over this too much......if you are going to start a dispute in an attempt to get your host to reverse course, definitely wait until you use up all good comps, BUT another possibility to consider if you really really really want to stay with CET as your primary gambling establishment is to actually visit BOTH CET properties in AC (caesars and Ballys) that you apparently do NOT spend too much time at....ask to speak to one of the big shots there (do it with subterfuge, pretend you are simply there to play, and THEN spring the situation, and your feelings on them).....I have found that even though the properties tend to "THINK" they are on the same team, you often find hosts or executives who will seemingly "go rogue" and act in their OWN individual interest....it sounds like you are definitely a player a host at a rival CET property would love to add......you see where I am going with this strategy.But if this is not possible, or something yoi do not want to attempt, then Iw ould prepare to ditch CET altogether and switch over to Golden Nugget or Borgata......if you have not already, go to the players booth at either place, or ask to speak to the host manager, and have as much info (i.e. PRINTOUTS) from CET/Harrahs and show them who you are and how you play.     Golden Nugget is good because they do have NAtional reach so you would be good if you want to hit Vegas or other area where GN exists....Borgata is not quite as far reaching, but BOYD gaming (the power behind Borgata) is BIG in Vegas obviously and would take care of you if you go to Vegas as well...Its not going to be the same as it was with CET, but you must reconcile the fact that THINGS in general will never be the same, and that Casinos, gaming, and Video Poker are all getting less and less "fun" and fiscally more problematic with the current economic situation of over saturated gaming and more pressure to ONLY do things that yield a PLUS on the bottom line (in other words, no casinos are thinking "LONG term" anymore, its all about profit NOW for THIS Quarter, etc etc)




I spoke with my host again today. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. At this point my wife is grounded and I will re-build based on my new play model. After-all I did say when the comps dried up I was going to walk away. No sense in coming on like Mr. Big Shot guy and then not backing it up with play.

I've been to Borgata, I've been to GN. Not a huge fan of either. Not configured the way I like and GN is still kind of in the stone ages as far as machines go. They are planning on upgrades. Let's face it. I do like Harrah's because of the CET LV reach but my gambling habbits are changing and I'm just going to have to let go of the past.

I've tried to tell my wife nothing in life is free. Why doesn't she understand?

Roveer

[Tedlark]

  roveer as you know, comps are based on current play (i'm guessing within 60-90 days) and you mentioned once before that you are mainly playing with freeplay with very little of your own money thrown in.    You know that the freeplay will also reduce, if it hasn't allready, and quite possibly CET will eliminate this alltogether. Several years ago I was playing at Hollywood in Aurora, IL using only freeplay with very little of my own cash. I went into the casino early one morning and having just received my offers in the mail I knew I had some freeplay. I entered my code into the machine and I got no freeplay downloaded so I went to a slot host who politely told me I had to go to the player's center to find out. Upon arrival at the player's center I was told that my freeplay offers had been recinded by the casino; there was no warning of this to me, they just did it and it is their right to at any time.    About 10 years ago a friend of mine wanted to go to Las Vegas with his wife as they had never been there. I told him I would get a comped room for them while they were there, sort of as my little gift to them. I listed them on the reservation but when they got there and Harrah's found out I wasn't coming; they were charged for the room. I called Harrah's and told them that my plans had changed suddenly and I couldn't make the trip but Harrah's then said that the room was comped because they were expecting me to come stay and play in their hotel/casino. Because I wasn't coming; my friend got charged for the room. I felt so bad that I paid for the room because I originally told them that the room was free.    After taking the long way around the barn, what I'm trying to say is this: the casinos have some small print that says all they give the players can be taken away at any time, without warning or notice to the player. No matter what your ADT may be.  

[DaBurglar]

 

  You know that the freeplay will also reduce, if it hasn't allready, and quite possibly CET will eliminate this alltogether. Several years ago I was playing at Hollywood in Aurora, IL using only freeplay with very little of my own cash. I went into the casino early one morning and having just received my offers in the mail I knew I had some freeplay. I entered my code into the machine and I got no freeplay downloaded so I went to a slot host who politely told me I had to go to the player's center to find out. Upon arrival at the player's center I was told that my freeplay offers had been recinded by the casino; there was no warning of this to me, they just did it and it is their right to at any time.    About 10 years ago a friend of mine wanted to go to Las Vegas with his wife as they had never been there. I told him I would get a comped room for them while they were there, sort of as my little gift to them. I listed them on the reservation but when they got there and Harrah's found out I wasn't coming; they were charged for the room. I called Harrah's and told them that my plans had changed suddenly and I couldn't make the trip but Harrah's then said that the room was comped because they were expecting me to come stay and play in their hotel/casino. Because I wasn't coming; my friend got charged for the room. I felt so bad that I paid for the room because I originally told them that the room was free.     Regarding your Hollywood aurora situation.....what had been your previous play/losses in order for you to playing "ONLY" free play to begin with (in other wors, what did you play/lose in order to earn the free play)?    And why exactly were your offers eventually, out of the blue, rescinded?      see, this is extremely suspicious:    Someone who allgedly wins as much and as often as you should, in theory get almost NO free play because, as most of us have found out in the real world, when a player WINS over time (meaning turns a significant actual REAL profit), free play tends to evaporate.Regarding the comps/room situation and your attempt to be nice to your friends:   What you just copped to was Fraud......read the fine print and rules/regs regarding using comped rooms.....I recall a long time back when you yourself went off on this exact same subject when it was discussed in a different thread about people who would "SELL" their comps, essentially booking a free room/reservation and then "charging" a friend (or even strangers) a certain amount that was less than what a normal reservation would cost so that the person(s) were getting a "good deal" while the person with the comps pockets the cash.

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar stop, Just stop. Don't eat a piece of humble pie, eat a whole bakery of humble pie, would you??? You are such a jealous person and haters gonna hate. Saw that on a t-shirt at the gym tonight. 
 Edited to add: Because you brought it up I will say that I did not commit fraud. Did you see that part where I said that I paid for the room? And did you see that I listed their names on the reservation? Nor did I ask my friend for the money either. As for the scenario you mentioned; it was yoou who offered to sell your comped rooms to people for a lower rate than they would normally get if they booked the rooms themselves, you wanna talk about fraud?   Why would I make this up? I have no reason to lie about stuff like this anyway.

[DaBurglar]

  DaBurglar stop, Just stop. Don't eat a piece of humble pie, eat a whole bakery of humble pie, would you??? You are such a jealous person and haters gonna hate. Saw that on a t-shirt at the gym tonight. 
 Edited to add: Because you brought it up I will say that I did not commit fraud. Did you see that part where I said that I paid for the room? Nor did I ask my friend for the money either. As for the scenario you mentioned; it was yoou who offered to sell your comped rooms to people for a lower rate than they would normally get if they booked the rooms themselves, you wanna talk about fraud?ehhhhh wrong again       Sure, you did pay for the room......AFTER your initial attempt was foiled.    And the other, previous discussion involving this same topic years ago did NOT actually have me selling anything, it was merely brought up as a hypothetical idea that MANY people (especially in AC in years past) had encountered, or thought about, or discussed.....I never actually did it, or even attempt it, unlike you in this recent case.....  It sucks to be poked and prodded doesnt it?   maybe now you will think twice before stalking my every post......edited to subtract by addition:   And per usual, you totally IGNORED my other questions/point about  your play/free play etc etc.

[djc32]

The rift is that my wife takes the kids and gets a 2 bedroom suite. They have room service and watch movies. She's taken a few friends once or twice and done the same thing. Probably 6-9 trips total. When she does that there is no play associated with the visit because she doesn't gamble.


As far as I'm concerned, they can go pound salt

Roveer

You brought up in another thread that you were getting $2,200 in free play a month, and only playing $50 of your own money. And on top of that your wife is staying in suites ,getting room service and movies without gambling a dime.
But now your upset that your not getting the same comps gambling only $50 of your own $, instead of the 150- 200k you were running through the machines last year in your "hay day"?
I remember your posts from last year where you stated that VP was taking a toll on you and that you were only going to be playing until the comps and free play dried up. So you knew this was going to happen at some point.