A closer look...

[rascal]

<FONT size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I enjoy playing for the longest time possible and coming home with money left in my pockets.   I tried the other way and it didn't work for me.   To each his own...

No argument there. If it works for you, go for it.

[alpax]

Out of the players who have explored this system from what I can see on the Recreational Play forum, no one has played this as long as the creator to get any sort of real gauge of the successes and failures of the system. At least I prematurely tried this system with NSUD (advised by Vman96 that high ER games lose more with single coin) and without knowing 100% strategy exceptions (on top of basic strategy) for single coin and max coin separately. If I want to commit to this strategy, I need to learn Fooler Deuces (20-12-10 or 9) paytable single and max coin strategies, as those are the quarter and dollar Deuces Wild game locally.

What remains consistent among the players is the significant increase of the longevity a player can play with the same amount of bankroll. Though average may be about 1/3 of the max bet value, you can go through 6 times as many hands. You will see more quad deuces, however the success comes when you hit the Straight Flush or better on Max Bet, it will boost you into high denomination play.

Phil has a point, constantly betting max without switching denomination on a negative expectation game will create losses that only grows over time. To some, it might force us to stop playing VP.

We all know there is no system in the long run that comes out ahead on a negative expectation game. I have been curious to a point where I wanted to run a computer simulation of this strategy over many visits and gather data. This way we may see on average how many single coin or max coin hands we play, so hard to keep track as it is. Probably will have it done in the next two or three weeks.

To make things simple, the simulation will not simulate every video poker play with a strategy or best hold, I will use the table at Wizard of Odds.

http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-pok ... 200-d-800/

There are 19,933,230,517,200 possible outcomes out of getting dealt 5 hands and exchanging out 0 to 5 cards. Thus I will use a random number generator that picks a number 0 to 19,933,230,517,199. And since there are 452,258,388 ways to get a Royal flush, a number falling in between 0 in 452,258,387 will be Royal Flush and so on. So this will apply to true random Class 3 VP machines and 100% optimal play.

Of course I will use the other tables too, Colorado Deuces and Airport Deuces. I suspected and I still think Phil has come up with a good strategy to play much longer in the long run, we will see about it.

[FloridaPhil]

I am not a disciple of any strategy and could care less what works or doesn't. All I know is that since I started playing this way one year ago, I have had very few days where I lost all my money.    Previous this this, I considered giving up the game because it was costing me so much to play.  In addition, my $1,000 jackpots went from just a few a year to almost one a month.  You can see the photo results on my contact page at http://www.cheapvideopoker.com/contact- ... poker.html .  I believe there are real reasons for this change that have nothing to do with luck.  The fact is playing my single coin progressive strategy allows you to play more hands which I believe is more valuable than waiting for a royal flush.   I will admit that I frequently play single coin dollar and $5 machines and that play accounts for many of my big wins.  Never-the-less, the difference is obvious. 
Old ideas die hard.   If you are playing less than 100% machines, less than computer perfect or you have a limited bankroll, you owe it to yourself to check this out.  On the other hand, if you are a recreational player and don't care how much money it's costing you to experience a jackpot, don't worry about it ... Just have fun. That's what it's really all about.

[alpax]

I am an advocate of your methodology or strategy, I only wanted to see how long the bankroll gets stretched and maybe try to analyze some things you are wondering at the same time. Not trying to disprove the effectiveness or anything, all negative expectation games are losses in the long term. I know 80% of the time the big jackpots will land on single coin, but even then I wanted to get better idea of the distribution between single coin and max coin.

I know I owe it to myself to read Bob Dancer's Million Dollar Video Poker where he won $1million from $6000, but I know your ultimate goal remaining is to win $20k royal flush with your system/bankroll, it would be an amazing feat to do that.

For me it was either giving up casino games entirely until I seriously picked up VP this year. I done a lot of stupid things and out of my control with slots (like chasing statewide progressives). I am glad I am not losing crazy amounts yearly.

I had one question about the system

Rule #2 - Cash out all wins over $50 immediately and put the white ticket in your wallet or purse.

Does this mean whenever your credit balance hits 200 quarter credits or more (starting from 80 credits from a $20 bill) or a 200 credit single hand win such as 1dollar denom Max Bet/5dollar single coin Straight Flush or higher, single quarter/max quarter/single 1dollar Quad Deuces?

I need this logic to implement the stopping point to the simulation.

[FloridaPhil]

I never put more than $20 in the machine at a time. When I'm playing quarters, fifty cents or dollars, I cash out everytime the counter reaches at least $50.  I do this so I'm guaranteed to go home with some money in my pocket.  When playing $5 machines I don't cash out until I reach at least $100.  After I cash out I put in another $20 and continue where I left off.
 
Most days I have quite a number of tickets and some days only a few.  If I'm doing well, I'll cull some of the small tickets to take a shot at the $5 machines.  I absolutely hate going home with empty pockets, so my goal is to always try to go home with at least some money.  Big jackpots happen but my goal never changes. 

[alpax]

Thanks for the clarification, I spent 3 hours to finish the core of the simulation, it does not look good to play with it on Fooler Deuces Paytable (20-12-10 for 97.58% ER) thus far. The simulation is not finished yet, I can add more conditions to it.

Before you guys freak out, I plan on running the simulator on Airport Deuces (98.91% ER), but I did the Fooler Deuces as it falls between Colorado and Airport.

I ran the scenario where you bring $300 to the casino and break it into 15 $20 bills.

The low denomination will be 25 cents
The high denomination will be $1 or 4 units of 25 cents

This is typical one day's worth of playing and winning for those optimistic (20-12-10 Fooler).

Session #1
Number Of Hands Played: 742
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 602
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 126
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 11
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 3
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 0

Session #2
Number Of Hands Played: 291
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 253
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 38
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 0

Session #3
Number Of Hands Played: 302
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 246
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 56
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 0

Session #4
Number Of Hands Played: 347
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 299
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 48
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: -1

Session #5
Number Of Hands Played: 267
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 237
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 30
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 0

Session #6
Number Of Hands Played: 680
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 501
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 109
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 60
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 10
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 246

Session #7
Number Of Hands Played: 807
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 633
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 109
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 58
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 7
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 0

Session #8
Number Of Hands Played: 43
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 10
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 5
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 21
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 7
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 910

Session #9
Number Of Hands Played: 146
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 127
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 18
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 1
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 0

Session #10
Number Of Hands Played: 101
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 37
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 16
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 42
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 6
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 260

Session #11
Number Of Hands Played: 144
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 124
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 19
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 1
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 0

Session #12
Number Of Hands Played: 63
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 61
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 2
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 272

Session #13
Number Of Hands Played: 264
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 226
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 38
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: -1

Session #14
Number Of Hands Played: 509
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 421
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 88
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 0
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 0

Session #15
Number Of Hands Played: 189
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 143
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 24
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 21
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 1
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 242

Number Of Hands Played: 4895
Number Of Quad Deuces and/or Natural Royal Flush: 3
Session #8 - Hand #43 - Outcome: Quad Deuces - Bet Type: SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Total Won 800
Session #12 - Hand #63 - Outcome: Quad Deuces - Bet Type: SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Total Won 200
Session #15 - Hand #189 - Outcome: Quad Deuces - Bet Type: SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Total Won 200
Profit Quarter Credits: 728 $182
I see a complete loss of the $300 bankroll about one third of the time, a majority loss 60-80% loss of bankroll the other third of the time. But I see roughly 5000 - 6000 hands of video poker played each time.

I will progress on it some more tomorrow, probably analyze to see if there are miscalculations here and there. I can reveal the outcome of each hand of the entire days worth of 5000-6000, but I think it will exceed the limitations allowed by the forum.

[alpax]

Bear in mind optimal single coin play can push the Natural Royal Flush to 1 in 50000 odds according to the Wizard of Odds strategy maker.

The -1 end result of certain ticket comes at a scenario where.

With 1 credit left, you bet 1 coin and get Full House or 4 of a Kind. To play MAX bet, you put in 25 cents more to bet 5 credits.

[FloridaPhil]

I honestly think the main reason this strategy works for me is that it allows me to comfortably play all day without freaking out about losing money. When you're comfortable, you make better decisions and the machine responds in kind. Before I switched I was seriously depressed about 70% of the time, I dreaded going on long gambling vacations and I prayed to be released from this obsession. I no longer feel that way because the investment is so small and I'm having so much more fun.
 
Let's face it, video poker can be a real downer when you're losing and that happens often.  The excitement level is increased every time you switch to max coins and when you go to dollars it's way up there.  The fun of hitting a $1,000 jackpot with a small session budget is the ultimate for me and lately it's happened often.  I do think that single coin play pays better in the long run.  I don't know if it's because of the increased hands played or something else, but it just does. 
 
 

[alpax]

It is great to hear that the good Lord has answered your prayers and enlightened you to think of this strategy.

Being able to play between 4000 - 6000 range (more averaged towards 5400) hands with $300 bankroll is the most encouraging part. These days casinos force people to bet 30 or 40 cents a spin on a slot machine, most of those single line option nickle games have mostly replaced with the newer ones that force the minimum bet. I play much slower when real money is at stake, I double check my holds before hitting the draw button. So about 2500-3000 for a 4 hour play block for me, to play another amount like that would require a long break. The games here on this site can be played faster since you only need one hand to make holds and draws.

From what I see thus far, the hourly $20 $1/$5 pot shots you take and winning from it may account for most of your winnings, you can only play max bet $1 about 0.5% of the time (1 out of 200 hands) when starting off from quarters. I will have to add 3 or 4 pot shots as part of the process, casino slot club card benefits, and a true distribution of the outcomes of every hand. Still working out quirks and verifying if the hand outcomes are correct.

[Kibel x2]

Bless you my children...please pay as you exit...ty.