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Phil,
Another thing to add is the only known fair machines are in Nevada and Colorado. I think Bob Dancer said that in a weekly article a while ago. Other state lotteries consider VP machines a slot machine or just another video lottery terminal.
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FloridaPhil
- Video Poker Master
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[quote=Waiting4RF]Another thing to add is the only known fair machines are in Nevada and
Colorado. I think Bob Dancer said that in a weekly article a while ago.
Other state lotteries consider VP machines a slot machine or just
another video lottery terminal.[/quote]I honestly don't know what to think about the fairness of Florida VP. Supposedly the tribes have complied with some standard that they have adopted, whatever that is. I have played VP in Florida, Nevada and many other states. Other than the odds, I haven't noticed much of a difference. I have witnessed many strange things playing VP, but none out of the realm of possibility. I doubt I could ever tell if a VP machine was rigged anyway. I am very concerned that Florida does not have a gambling commission. With billions of the public's money at stake, I think that is unconscionable. I suspect the games in Florida are as fair as anywhere else. I think the point Dancer was making is that the tribes play by their own rules. If you play on their land, any and all disputes are going to go their way.
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Casino Knight
- VP Veteran
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- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:14 am
Class III, Tribal Gaming is regulated through State Gaming Compacts, authorized by the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988. Those compacts detail the rules by which the Tribe and the State agree to operate.
As an aside, Florida is the State that got the ball rolling for all Tribal Gaming in a Supreme Court Case about High Stakes Bingo.
As an aside, Florida is the State that got the ball rolling for all Tribal Gaming in a Supreme Court Case about High Stakes Bingo.
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case
- VP Veteran
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The dollar succubus is a killer.  Looking back, I am sure this was the main thing Mr. Dancer objected to in my CS strategy.  He knew that 99% of the players who would consider playing single coin quarters would be "steam rolled" by switching to dollars. Switching to dollars was always a secondary CS option, but he was 100% correct in his assessment.   This option was definitely wrong on my part and I never should have put it in print. I realize now that my approach to video poker is not something that should be advertised or celebrated.   The CS dollar switch was totally hypocritical on my part as I have criticized Mr. Dancer many times for promoting high stakes play when in principle I was doing exactly the same thing.I've said this before, but it bears repeating. I consider video poker and casino gambling in general as a totally frivolous escape, not some kind of competition with my bankroll or anyone else. My wife is a much better VP "player" than me. She plays max coins slowly, accurately and never ever switches denomination.  At the end of the year, her cost to play VP is negligible. I play too fast. I don't have the discipline, patience or desire to play like her and it costs me. The only thing CS did for me was hold down my loses. Hitting a good run of pot shots was what put me ahead, not CS itself. If I played like her, I wouldn't have created CS in the first place.I have the means to play any way I wish and I won't run out of money. Unless your situation is the same, you shouldn't play like me. Mr. Dancer's strategy is the Gold Standard of profitable VP play, BUT you must have ALL of it , not just a few parts. Using his strategy when playing negative VP games will let you play longer, but it won't make you a long term winner because the negative odds will eat up all your profits and then some. You should also be aware that for most of us playing only positive VP games means flying to Vegas or playing at higher denominations. Playing bigger means dealing with bigger bankroll swings and toughing it through long periods of depressing losses. If you must play negative games, playing small and accurately will reduce your loses.I hope this helps to resolve some of these issues. I would like to say that humor is a better way to get a point across.  There is too much pain and anger in the real world. We don't need any more of it here.
That was a real heartfelt honest post you made Phil. Nicely worded.
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billryan
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm
Phil,
Another thing to add is the only known fair machines are in Nevada and Colorado. I think Bob Dancer said that in a weekly article a while ago. Other state lotteries consider VP machines a slot machine or just another video lottery terminal.
That's not at all true. NJ and Pennsylvania, at a minimum, have the same standards.
Another thing to add is the only known fair machines are in Nevada and Colorado. I think Bob Dancer said that in a weekly article a while ago. Other state lotteries consider VP machines a slot machine or just another video lottery terminal.
That's not at all true. NJ and Pennsylvania, at a minimum, have the same standards.
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billryan
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 4422
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm
[QUOTE=FloridaPhil]
The dollar succubus is a killer.  Looking back, I am sure this was the main thing Mr. Dancer objected to in my CS strategy.  He knew that 99% of the players who would consider playing single coin quarters would be "steam rolled" by switching to dollars. Switching to dollars was always a secondary CS option, but he was 100% correct in his assessment.   This option was definitely wrong on my part and I never should have put it in print. I realize now that my approach to video poker is not something that should be advertised or celebrated.   The CS dollar switch was totally hypocritical on my part as I have criticized Mr. Dancer many times for promoting high stakes play when in principle I was doing exactly the same thing.I've said this before, but it bears repeating. I consider video poker and casino gambling in general as a totally frivolous escape, not some kind of competition with my bankroll or anyone else. My wife is a much better VP "player" than me. She plays max coins slowly, accurately and never ever switches denomination.  At the end of the year, her cost to play VP is negligible. I play too fast. I don't have the discipline, patience or desire to play like her and it costs me. The only thing CS did for me was hold down my loses. Hitting a good run of pot shots was what put me ahead, not CS itself. If I played like her, I wouldn't have created CS in the first place.I have the means to play any way I wish and I won't run out of money. Unless your situation is the same, you shouldn't play like me. Mr. Dancer's strategy is the Gold Standard of profitable VP play, BUT you must have ALL of it , not just a few parts. Using his strategy when playing negative VP games will let you play longer, but it won't make you a long term winner because the negative odds will eat up all your profits and then some. You should also be aware that for most of us playing only positive VP games means flying to Vegas or playing at higher denominations. Playing bigger means dealing with bigger bankroll swings and toughing it through long periods of depressing losses. If you must play negative games, playing small and accurately will reduce your loses.I hope this helps to resolve some of these issues. I would like to say that humor is a better way to get a point across.  There is too much pain and anger in the real world. We don't need any more of it here.
That was a real heartfelt honest post you made Phil. Nicely worded.
But completely mistaken. Dancers objection wasn't so much about the single coin, as it was Phils arbitrary
jumping up. Had he said only play single coin all the time, it would have been one thing, but saying you raise you bet after a particular coin win implies the machine is somehow poised to enter a hot cycle.
Its arbitrary and capricious. Phils "winning" was supposed to be based on his playing single coins most of the time, yet timing it so he had max coins out for the four deuces or royal flushes. Not going to happen. In the long run, if you play single coin 90% of the time, you are going to hit 90% of your royals on single coin hands.
It really is that simple.
[/QUOTE]
The dollar succubus is a killer.  Looking back, I am sure this was the main thing Mr. Dancer objected to in my CS strategy.  He knew that 99% of the players who would consider playing single coin quarters would be "steam rolled" by switching to dollars. Switching to dollars was always a secondary CS option, but he was 100% correct in his assessment.   This option was definitely wrong on my part and I never should have put it in print. I realize now that my approach to video poker is not something that should be advertised or celebrated.   The CS dollar switch was totally hypocritical on my part as I have criticized Mr. Dancer many times for promoting high stakes play when in principle I was doing exactly the same thing.I've said this before, but it bears repeating. I consider video poker and casino gambling in general as a totally frivolous escape, not some kind of competition with my bankroll or anyone else. My wife is a much better VP "player" than me. She plays max coins slowly, accurately and never ever switches denomination.  At the end of the year, her cost to play VP is negligible. I play too fast. I don't have the discipline, patience or desire to play like her and it costs me. The only thing CS did for me was hold down my loses. Hitting a good run of pot shots was what put me ahead, not CS itself. If I played like her, I wouldn't have created CS in the first place.I have the means to play any way I wish and I won't run out of money. Unless your situation is the same, you shouldn't play like me. Mr. Dancer's strategy is the Gold Standard of profitable VP play, BUT you must have ALL of it , not just a few parts. Using his strategy when playing negative VP games will let you play longer, but it won't make you a long term winner because the negative odds will eat up all your profits and then some. You should also be aware that for most of us playing only positive VP games means flying to Vegas or playing at higher denominations. Playing bigger means dealing with bigger bankroll swings and toughing it through long periods of depressing losses. If you must play negative games, playing small and accurately will reduce your loses.I hope this helps to resolve some of these issues. I would like to say that humor is a better way to get a point across.  There is too much pain and anger in the real world. We don't need any more of it here.
That was a real heartfelt honest post you made Phil. Nicely worded.
But completely mistaken. Dancers objection wasn't so much about the single coin, as it was Phils arbitrary
jumping up. Had he said only play single coin all the time, it would have been one thing, but saying you raise you bet after a particular coin win implies the machine is somehow poised to enter a hot cycle.
Its arbitrary and capricious. Phils "winning" was supposed to be based on his playing single coins most of the time, yet timing it so he had max coins out for the four deuces or royal flushes. Not going to happen. In the long run, if you play single coin 90% of the time, you are going to hit 90% of your royals on single coin hands.
It really is that simple.
[/QUOTE]
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FloridaPhil
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:28 am
[quote=billryan]In the long run, if you play single coin 90% of the time, you are going to hit 90% of your royals on single coin hands.
It really is that simple.[/quote]I agree. CS made benefiting from a royal flush much more difficult as you not only had to hit one, you had to hit one right after a 4 coin win. The first royal I hit using CS was at max coins. I hit the majority at single coin. My pot shot wins were nothing but pure luck. Anyone sitting in those seats could have done the same thing.All my life I have enjoyed going against the odds and taking chances. CS let me enjoy the thrill of playing big denominations without the big bankroll. It's not the best way to play, but I liked it. When I played $5 and $10 machines, the anticipation of hitting the max coin button was exhilarating. In time I realized it wasn't the most efficient way to play, but it sure was fun.Gambling is gambling. If you can't afford to lose your money you shouldn't be in the casino in the first place. No strategy changes that.
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Carcounter
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I agree with onemoretry, there are a lot of us out there that are recreational players who only play 99% plus games with proper strategy and look for good promotions.
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FloridaPhil
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[quote=Carcounter]I agree with onemoretry, there are a lot of us out there that are
recreational players who only play 99% plus games with proper strategy
and look for good promotions.[/quote]I do too, but I don't limit myself. I play slots. I take pot shots. I might buy a lotto ticket once in a while. I'll try most anything that's fun and legal. On the last day of my life am I going to regret playing a few 97% video poker games? I don't think so...I'm not saying seeking out the best games and promotions isn't a good thing. It is. I'm saying most people don't. Should they? Yes. Will they always? Probably not.
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spxChrome
- VP Veteran
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- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:21 pm
You leave out the third group.
Those that are so addicted that they need their fix no matter how bad the games are. They know it's dumb to play such games but simply can't help themselves.
People who enter the casinos bound and determined to stick to quarters but surrender to the siren call of the dollar succubus.
Those who need their weekly fix playing short pay machines poorly but who rationalize it a dozen different ways.
Everyone should thank this group its the reason all you math and recreation players have a casino to go to.
Those that are so addicted that they need their fix no matter how bad the games are. They know it's dumb to play such games but simply can't help themselves.
People who enter the casinos bound and determined to stick to quarters but surrender to the siren call of the dollar succubus.
Those who need their weekly fix playing short pay machines poorly but who rationalize it a dozen different ways.
Everyone should thank this group its the reason all you math and recreation players have a casino to go to.
