RNG Questions

[Eduardo]

If the machines are actually physically being rigged, why not make them all full pay so you can screw more players? There is no need to rig these machines.

Exactly.

[olds442jetaway]

I still wonder why when reporting results for public consumption, why vp patron returns are lumped in with slots. In Ct, these results always come in at around 90 to 91 percent. On vp returns, I’m sure player errors account for 2 percent or so over time Even if the paytables are at 97 percent, I would love ro see if the vp results were closer to 95 percent than 90 percent for regular slots

[notes1]

i mentioned this some time ago. i have an close acquaintance who is a casino executive. i am confident any info i received from this person is accurate. the casinos run a program on each machine throughout the time the machine is in use. the machines show the actual hold percentage for various time periods, that may include daily, weekly, monthly and annual. short time periods can show wild swings of actual hold versus expected.

what was interesting was when i asked about the vp machines actual results versus expected, over the long term. the actual hold was approx 2% higher than the programmed expected results. in other words, a machine with paytables that would result in a 97% payout, actually had a 95% payout. no reason was given. i would only guess that player error and less than full coin bet, resulted in the casinos making more.

[FloridaPhil]

i would only guess that player error and less than full coin bet, resulted in the casinos making more.

I agree. If we all could play video poker like a computer simulation, the odds would tell the whole story. Most of us don't play video poker that way. We make errors, juggle our bets and use strategies outside the realm of simulations. We do this for a number of reasons like stretching our bankroll, dreaming of big jackpots, running low on money or just pure greed. Most video poker players I know don't place profit over entertainment value.

There many similarities in playing video poker and fishing. Millions of people enjoy fishing. They buy boats, tackle, gas, bait and may fly all over the world to get a fish on the line. Very few people fish for profit. Fishing for profit is entirely different than fishing for fun. When I fished tournaments, I did whatever it took to hook a fish and get it to the boat as fast as possible. I wasn't thinking about how hard the fish fought or how nice it looked. I jerked the fish to the boat, shoved it in my live well and made another cast. I wasn't fishing for fish. I was fishing for dollars.

I never understood some of the attitudes we have on this forum. If you are playing video poker for profit, why insult Recreational players? This would be like me going on TV after winning a big tournament and calling all weekend anglers idiots. Recreational players make the game possible. There is no need to tell us we are paying your bills. If you profit from VP, be grateful to us because the majority of us don't.

[Jstark]

i mentioned this some time ago. i have an close acquaintance who is a casino executive. i am confident any info i received from this person is accurate. the casinos run a program on each machine throughout the time the machine is in use. the machines show the actual hold percentage for various time periods, that may include daily, weekly, monthly and annual. short time periods can show wild swings of actual hold versus expected.

what was interesting was when i asked about the vp machines actual results versus expected, over the long term. the actual hold was approx 2% higher than the programmed expected results. in other words, a machine with paytables that would result in a 97% payout, actually had a 95% payout. no reason was given. i would only guess that player error and less than full coin bet, resulted in the casinos making more.

This is true with many casino games where player decisions affect the hold. Take blackjack for example. If everyone played basic strategy perfectly, the casinos would make much, much less money every day. Sadly with all of the great info that's been out for years, this isn't the case.

[olds442jetaway]

I’m afraid if all recreational players played with perfect strategy and never made button errore, we would not see 99 percent games anywhere. That’s why the bars have most of the 99 percent games nowdays. They know alcohol and conversation distractions as well as big screen TVs with sports shows will result in more player errors. I’m sure like Notes posted, those distractions give the house at least that extra 2 percent if not more.

[olds442jetaway]

I forgot one more funny thing i have been playing more at the bars lately to get the best paytables. Non vp players will walk up to the bar and play the vp machines just like they play cards so they can get free drinks. I know the house loves that. Sometimes theg don’t even look to see what game they are playing. The other day I watched a guy play joker kings like job. He held single jacks and queens etc. I mentioned to him once in passing that it was kings or better but he was oblivious and just kept going. He did catch a couple of quads though holding just a jack.

[FloridaPhil]

It's fairly common to find the best pay tables in a casino at the bar. I don't drink, so I tip the bartender a $1 for a coke. Bar top VP machines are always a mess and uncomfortable to play. Last week a guy sitting next to me knocked over his whole drink into his keyboard. They cleaned it up, but I'll bet the that keyboard was worthless the next day. Such is life in a casino.

[Vman96]

If the machines are actually physically being rigged, why not make them all full pay so you can screw more players? There is no need to rig these machines. The player's themselves are their own worst enemy. The house edge, errors, bad choices, greed and poor money management make more than enough profit for the casinos. With this issue, I am in total agreement with the experts.

The "conspiracy theorists" never have come up with a good answer for this. All rigged games should look like "full pay" machines, imo. But there are many casinos with no full pay games at all!

Also Class II (electronic bingo) games have always had "full pay" payables in my experience as well. So they make them also look deceiving to the uniformed player.

i mentioned this some time ago. i have an close acquaintance who is a casino executive. i am confident any info i received from this person is accurate. the casinos run a program on each machine throughout the time the machine is in use. the machines show the actual hold percentage for various time periods, that may include daily, weekly, monthly and annual. short time periods can show wild swings of actual hold versus expected.

what was interesting was when i asked about the vp machines actual results versus expected, over the long term. the actual hold was approx 2% higher than the programmed expected results. in other words, a machine with paytables that would result in a 97% payout, actually had a 95% payout. no reason was given. i would only guess that player error and less than full coin bet, resulted in the casinos making more.

Yeah about 2% sounds right to me. You have to be making very big and frequent errors to lose larger numbers like 5 or 10%.

[FAA]

Can you imagine craps if everyone just did Pass/No Pass bets and full odds? Every table would become $25 to pull its weight. Boneheaded bets aplenty make my weekly bet possible.