A closer look...

[alpax]

I see they have expected returns table on wizard of odds website, Double STP for an additional 2 credits seems to boost the ER by 0.5%, but there is no calculations to how they derived to the ER, or even if 1 of the 2 multipliers hit.

The odds for a dealt RF with a multipler is about 9.75 million (1 in 15 for multiplier and 1 in 649790 for the RF), there probably needs to be an unique conditional to evaluate that scenario.

You've probably seen it already, but it took an average of 25 years worth of play of the cheap system starting from single quarters to max bet dollar Royal Flush. That is considering about 5000 hands a week of play which will probably be 6.5 million hands. Best chance at the 20k royal flush for low denomination players is to pot shot for one.

Transforming a $20 bill into a $4000 RF

Session #19
Number Of Hands Played: 118
Number Of Single Coin Low Denomination Played: 83
Number Of Max Coin Low Denomination Played: 16
Number Of Single Coin Higher Denomination Played: 17
Number Of Max Coin Higher Denomination Played: 2
Ticket Amount in Quarter Credits: 16098

Hand #1 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #2 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #3 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #4 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 4 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 82
Hand #5 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #6 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #7 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #8 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Full House - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 80
Hand #9 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 75
Hand #10 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 74
Hand #11 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 74
Hand #12 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 74
Hand #13 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 5 of a Kind - Win Amount 15 - Credit Balance 88
Hand #14 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 83
Hand #15 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 82
Hand #16 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 81
Hand #17 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 81
Hand #18 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 80
Hand #19 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #20 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 78
Hand #21 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 78
Hand #22 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #23 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Flush - Win Amount 3 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #24 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Flush - Win Amount 3 - Credit Balance 81
Hand #25 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 80
Hand #26 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #27 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #28 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 78
Hand #29 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #30 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Flush - Win Amount 3 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #31 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 78
Hand #32 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #33 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 76
Hand #34 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Flush - Win Amount 3 - Credit Balance 78
Hand #35 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #36 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #37 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 76
Hand #38 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 75
Hand #39 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 74
Hand #40 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 73
Hand #41 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 73
Hand #42 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 72
Hand #43 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 71
Hand #44 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 71
Hand #45 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 70
Hand #46 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 70
Hand #47 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 69
Hand #48 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 69
Hand #49 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 68
Hand #50 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 67
Hand #51 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Royal Flush With Deuces - Win Amount 25 - Credit Balance 91
Hand #52 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome 4 of a Kind - Win Amount 20 - Credit Balance 106
Hand #53 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 5 - Credit Balance 106
Hand #54 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 101
Hand #55 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 101
Hand #56 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 97
Hand #57 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 93
Hand #58 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 89
Hand #59 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 89
Hand #60 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Straight - Win Amount 8 - Credit Balance 93
Hand #61 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 93
Hand #62 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 93
Hand #63 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 93
Hand #64 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 89
Hand #65 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 85
Hand #66 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 85
Hand #67 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 81
Hand #68 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 81
Hand #69 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #70 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #71 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 76
Hand #72 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Straight - Win Amount 2 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #73 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 76
Hand #74 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 75
Hand #75 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 75
Hand #76 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 74
Hand #77 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 74
Hand #78 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 73
Hand #79 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 72
Hand #80 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 71
Hand #81 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 71
Hand #82 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 4 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 74
Hand #83 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 69
Hand #84 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 68
Hand #85 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 67
Hand #86 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 67
Hand #87 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 4 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 70
Hand #88 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 65
Hand #89 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Royal Flush With Deuces - Win Amount 25 - Credit Balance 89
Hand #90 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 84
Hand #91 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 83
Hand #92 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 82
Hand #93 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 81
Hand #94 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 80
Hand #95 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #96 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 78
Hand #97 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #98 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 76
Hand #99 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Straight Flush - Win Amount 9 - Credit Balance 84
Hand #100 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 5 - Credit Balance 84
Hand #101 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #102 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #103 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 78
Hand #104 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 77
Hand #105 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Flush - Win Amount 3 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #106 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 1 - Credit Balance 79
Hand #107 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 78
Hand #108 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome 4 of a Kind - Win Amount 4 - Credit Balance 81
Hand #109 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 5 - Credit Balance 81
Hand #110 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome 4 of a Kind - Win Amount 20 - Credit Balance 96
Hand #111 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 91
Hand #112 - Bet Type SingleCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 1 - Outcome Royal Flush With Deuces - Win Amount 25 - Credit Balance 115
Hand #113 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 5 - Credit Balance 115
Hand #114 - Bet Type MaxCoinLowerDenomination - Bet Amount 5 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 110
Hand #115 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome Nothing - Win Amount 0 - Credit Balance 106
Hand #116 - Bet Type SingleCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 4 - Outcome 4 of a Kind - Win Amount 16 - Credit Balance 118
Hand #117 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 20 - Credit Balance 118
Hand #118 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome Royal Flush No Deuces - Win Amount 16000 - Credit Balance 16098

[wildman49]

Hand #117 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 20 - Credit Balance 118
Hand #118 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome Royal Flush No Deuces - Win Amount 16000 - Credit Balance 16098Why did the last two hands bet 20 coins?

[wildman49]

[QUOTE=wildman49]
[QUOTE=FloridaPhil]  It doesn't matter if you play 5 cents a hand or $100, it's all the same game.   You pay your money and you decide how much you are willing to pay to play.  I agree 100% with that one Phil.I been playing the system on the 20 coin machines. The two things I like is playing 5 coins then max after a flush that pays 15 coins in DW lets me hit max more often. Also with five coin bet you win $200 for the royal on 5 cent five coins in or $1000 for the 25 cent five coin bet. Not crazy about $12.50 or $62.50 as I do hit a RF about every 40,000 hands or so. The pay tables are not as good but when/if the royal hits to me should make up the lower payout table.[/QUOTE]

I think the strategy calls for the MAX bet after a 4 credit win, the Full House and 4 of a Kind.[/QUOTE]On the 20 coin machines I bet 5 coins say nickels then max bet after 15
or more coin hit. The flush on these machine pays 15 then I max to 20
coins or $1.00 bet. Its the same cheap  system with the benefit of
getting $200 for a RF then the $62.50 on one 25 cent bet on a 5 coin machine. Then after
getting above the $25 change to 5 quarters and do the same till I drop
below $20. Yes I am hitting max bet more often when the flush hits then one would on the 1 coin system and the bank roll might not last as long if the deuces don't hit, but it works for me.

[olds442jetaway]

I have tried the Phil method many times now. I think you just have to be lucky and hit the good ones on max bet. You will only get that chance once in about every 10 hands, but that is still 500 chances in an average long session. I have had some hits at the one coin level, but not any good ones to speak of at max. Part of the problem may be that I seem to have gone into one of those straight down cycles again. No Royals in 175k hands and counting, no deuces quads in 25k hands now. job quads few and far between. TDB straignt down along with Double Down Stud. The only thing that is currently working is Joker Kings. I don't think too many people play this, but at 17/7, it is not a bed diversion. The 5 of a kinds are right on scheduld as well as the quads and straight flushes. The variance is higher than deuces though, so I don't think I will try the Phil method on it, but I'm still thinking about it since back to back quads come in sometimes on Joker Kings. Hope I break the cycle soon, or I will just be going to the casino for the free play, dinner, and shows till they run out. Of course to fill the tank too. Wife says that is a good idea anyway, but its tough when you like to play as much as we all do.
     PS....To add insult to injury, the last 5 of a kind I had on Joker Kings came with 4 deuces and the joker

[wildman49]

OLDS have you given bonus deluxe a look at max bet? Wife and I hit 4ok alot on this one its our go to when we get down to hit the 400 coin 4ok payout, give it a try, might break the streak down some for you.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=alpax]Hand #117 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 20 - Credit Balance 118
Hand #118 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome Royal Flush No Deuces - Win Amount 16000 - Credit Balance 16098Why did the last two hands bet 20 coins?
[/QUOTE]
Because he was DUE for the RF ?

[wildman49]

[QUOTE=wildman49]
[QUOTE=alpax]Hand #117 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 20 - Credit Balance 118
Hand #118 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome Royal Flush No Deuces - Win Amount 16000 - Credit Balance 16098Why did the last two hands bet 20 coins?
[/QUOTE]
Because he was DUE for the RF ? [/QUOTE]LOL

[alpax]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] [QUOTE=wildman49]
[QUOTE=alpax]Hand #117 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome 3 of a Kind - Win Amount 20 - Credit Balance 118
Hand #118 - Bet Type MaxCoinHigherDenomination - Bet Amount 20 - Outcome Royal Flush No Deuces - Win Amount 16000 - Credit Balance 16098Why did the last two hands bet 20 coins?
[/QUOTE]
Because he was DUE for the RF ? [/QUOTE]<font size="7">LOL[/QUOTE]

The way the strategy plays out is when the credit balances reaches $25 or 100 quarter credits, you switch over to the dollar denomination. On hand #112, a wild Royal boosted the credit balance over 100 and it played until a losing hand was encountered. Fortunately starting from #115 higher denomination was played to a point where the 4 of a kind was hit to enable max dollar bets and fortunately the Natural Royal was hit soon after. Again I did not personally rig this scenario, it took 25 years worth of play on the system on average to see something like this.

[alpax]

I have tried the Phil method many times now. I think you just have to be lucky and hit the good ones on max bet. You will only get that chance once in about every 10 hands, but that is still 500 chances in an average long session. I have had some hits at the one coin level, but not any good ones to speak of at max. Part of the problem may be that I seem to have gone into one of those straight down cycles again. No Royals in 175k hands and counting, no deuces quads in 25k hands now. job quads few and far between. TDB straignt down along with Double Down Stud. The only thing that is currently working is Joker Kings. I don't think too many people play this, but at 17/7, it is not a bed diversion. The 5 of a kinds are right on scheduld as well as the quads and straight flushes. The variance is higher than deuces though, so I don't think I will try the Phil method on it, but I'm still thinking about it since back to back quads come in sometimes on Joker Kings. Hope I break the cycle soon, or I will just be going to the casino for the free play, dinner, and shows till they run out. Of course to fill the tank too. Wife says that is a good idea anyway, but its tough when you like to play as much as we all do.
     PS....To add insult to injury, the last 5 of a kind I had on Joker Kings came with 4 deuces and the joker

The method is most suited for

1. Those that are forced to play on less than stellar pay tables
2. Those that have a need to play a lot of hands throughout the year, like 5000 a week pace for 250,000 hands a year
3. Those who are not willing to lose big amounts to try to get comps from the casino.

Though it looks discouraging to see lots of quad deuces hit at a quarter. At the end of the year, the system does allow you to have $1000 or more as a quarter player depending the length of play and the pay table. For dollar players, it should be a factor of 4 to $4000. If losing a few thousand does not hurt the player financially, they can continue pursuing max bet play as long as they take advantage of most of the casino comps for their losses.

[olds442jetaway]

Will check it out. I haven't even looked to see if the game is available at Mohegen. It probably is though. Thanks for the tip at any rate. May even go up late tonight after we give out the candy to the trick or treaters. We still get 70 or 80 kids a year that come by. If I don't go up there, I will be tempted to stay home with the leftover candy. Not a good idea. I will have the Mrs. hide it and bring to school next week for the teachers room.