How To Keep The Casino From Beating You

[FloridaPhil]

I am craving BP too now.

FAA, you didn't ask me for it, but for what it's worth here's my advice based on my reading of your posts. To me it seems your have two issues to overcome. The first is you are playing VP without an adequate daily bankroll. This makes your time in front of the machine either feast of famine, usually the later. What I would do is save my money and play the game when I can spend two hours playing with 1,000 coins or more. Video poker is a marathon not a sprint. Play when you have enough time to let the game work for you. Popping in and out of the casino looking for a royal is an extreme long shot.

You have already identified your second challenge, playing above your bankroll. Stay away from dollar play like poison. Embrace quarter play and enjoy the game itself, not the thrill of a hand pay. Play slow, accurate and pace yourself. Jackpots will come if you wait for them. If you try the engineer them, you will continually be depressed. Eventually you will quit the game and that would be a shame.

This is an excellent post

Thanks for the comment. I have learned a lot about video poker over the years. I do not play for profit, so some of my comments do not fit the book standard. There are a lot more players like me than APs. If my posts can help someone, that's good. I advocate playing small so whatever you do won't hurt you.

[FloridaPhil]

I don't want anyone to interpret what I am saying to think that I do not care about profit. I like hitting jackpots as much as anyone else. What I am saying is, I value other aspects of VP more than profit. All I want out of an afternoon's VP play is a good time and a chance at a nice jackpot. If I can gain that without leaving a lot of money at the casino, I consider that a win.

Playing VP for profit requires all kinds of things that I am not willing to do. It could mean saving my money and playing where they offer positive games. It could mean playing games I don't particularly like. I may have to spend more time in a casino than I want to. It could also mean losing serious money between jackpots.

Playing VP for entertainment is a different game than playing for profit. If you can combine both, that's a good thing.

[FloridaPhil]

Playing Short Coin Video Poker

Why would anyone play less than max coin video poker? If you can play error free, have an adequate dedicated bankroll, have access to positive VP games or if comps make your games positive, ignore this post and go back to the Strategy Forum. If you are among the majority of the players in America who can't or don't, you may be interested in reading this post.

Video poker combines two activities, playing a video game and gambling. What is it you like about playing VP? Is it the challenge of the game itself, the thrill of walking out with a jackpot or both?
The majority of today's video poker games are negative. Even with comps, there is a cost to playing these games. Playing the game also has costs that are not totally financial. It ties up money that could be used for more profitable purposes. The monetary swings cause some people to take chances that don't pay off. When they are out of money, they hit the ATM. Do this enough and the game can become a problem . Video poker is a very addictive activity. When you are on a winning streak it's a high similar to the high you get from drugs. When you are losing, it's "cold turkey".

If there was no risk and no reward, would it be the same game? Going to the casino is fun. You get out of the house and escape to a place where your troubles are far away. You may be able to drink free all day, the casino is air conditioned in the summer and heated in the winter. The sights and sounds are like nothing else. You meet friends, tell stories and share a common interest. Every now and then the casino lets you win some of your money back.

How much does it cost to play negative video poker? The cost is directly related to the amount of money you run through the machines. The bigger issue for me is not the long term cost to play, it's the cost between wins.

Playing VP, I can win $1,000 on Tuesday and lose $1,200 by Friday. I tell myself I am playing for the long term, but all I think about is the money I gave back. Over a year's time, this adds up. If you play VP long enough, you will either quit the game, learn to endure these swings or find a way to reduce them.

The average slot machine pay back in Florida is reportedly 10%. It actually seems much higher because a lot of the payback is tied up in very rare jackpots. The worst single coin video poker game at my casino is single coin 100/60 deuces wild, a 96.3% game with perfect play. Playing 500 hands an hour at single coin quarters, you will run $125 through the machine. The house edge is 3.7% or an average of $4.60 an hour. The average max coin loss comes out to nearly $24 an hour. Playing single coin quarters, you will breath the same air the $5 players do, enjoy the same music and sit in the same air conditioning. You won't win as much. Long term you will most likely lose less.

Why is single coin video poker looked down upon? I was once playing single coin quarters at the end of a long row of players. I like to play single coin double double bonus. I happened to hit 4 aces with a kicker for $100. One of the other players saw this and made a comment. At the other end of the row, a lady said this loud enough so I could hear it. "Single coin players screw up the game for the rest of us!" I asked her why she thought this? She said they take all the jackpots out of the game. Unbelievable... I think she was losing big time and she knew I wasn't.

Playing single coin VP is a personal choice. I am not telling you to do it. I am giving you some information if you decide to give it a try.

First, never play single coin after you have played max coins all day and you are running out of money. I guarantee you will hit a hand that would have caught you back up and you will want to jump off the nearest bridge. Start out playing single coin and stay that way. The best way to play single coin VP is to play single coin all the time. Don't be tempted to switch back and forth between single and max coins. You will never be that good at guessing.

Don't play 2, 3 or 4 coins. Play either 1 coin or 5. When you play less than what it takes to earn the royal flush bonus, you are trading some of your return for the benefit of cheaper play. Why pay more for no gain? If you can find a game without a royal bonus, this doesn't apply.

Does playing single coin pay better than max coins? NO. It may seem that way because you will be able to play a lot more hands with your money. More hands means more jackpots, but the jackpots are smaller.

Can you earn comps playing single coin? Depends on the denomination. I'm not an expert on casino comps, but I have been told they are calculated from "coin in". Coin in is the amount of money you put into the machine over a period of time. If you play negative VP with single coin quarters, you will not earn many comps. You won't lose as much either. You need to know the value of the comps and compare that with the cost to play. I currently play max coin quarters at my home casino. I do this because they let me stay in their hotels and eat in the coffee shop for free. If I was going to play a lot of VP on a cruise ship for example, I would play single coin as cheap as possible. Most cruise ship casinos have the worst VP odds you will ever see. Over time I will come out ahead of most max coin players on a cruise ship.

Is playing max coin nickels better or worse than single coin quarters? The casino knows the profit each machine must make to remain on the floor. To compensate for the lower "coin in" of nickel machines, the odds are reduced even further. I use software to determine the odds and which games are better to play. In most cases, single coin quarters is a better game than max coin nickels. If that's not the case where you play, play the best game.

You also need to be aware that single coin strategy is different than max coin strategy for the same game. This is true because of the reduced value of a royal flush. I use Video Poker for Winners software to train (http://www.bobdancer.com). Set the game on single coin to learn the right single coin strategy. If you use max coin strategy when playing single coin you will reduce the odds even further.

Playing single coin allows a player on a budget to enjoy playing VP while reducing the risk and long term cost. Experts rarely discuss this fact. No player wants to read about losing. It's much more entertaining to read articles about how to beat the casino than how to reduce the amount you give them. If the games you play or how you play them makes the game negative, you have three choices. You can choose not to play, you can accept the cost as part of the game or you can play cheaper. The choice is up to you.

[billryan]

Bump

[aces7]

I have a video poker program from Jean Scott called wolf video poker and it's very eye opening with it's simulations. You can alter the programs pay table and make games 130% payback unheard of,but guess what Garbage still shows up in the graph 50% of the time. Any real av machine is like 101.3% or something like that and it' just so trivial,yet doable I guess if your willing to play 9 hours a day 7 days a week. To keep the casino from beating you on negative video poker I generally have a strategy that isn't bullet proof,but heck Ill share it I guess. In the program you can take any bonus game,especially DBBL and make 2 pair 2/1 pay just like JOB and it turns from 96% to 111.2% which is just a program thing you cant do it in real life. Now if you run the sim short term you often lose so you need to understand variance,game types and cycles and use a special speculation method it's the only way to turn a negative game into a positive one,but it relies on some luck,but way less than pure quad luck.

What you need to understand is the 2 pair cycle it's 7.7 so it's very simple. I play Bonus deluxe to start my session on quarters count to 5 spins and if no 2 pair happens I switch to bonus poker and play. Good news is Bonus poker has some decent quads and 4 aces as 400 if you get super lucky,ideally though in 3 spins you get 2 pair and that's a + so youv'e temporarily changed the pay table. Now go back and play your high variance game and repeat! Unfortunately 2 pair will pop up from time to time on the DBBL,but if you manage the cycle you can limit it and each time you get 2 pair on JOB or Bonus you have gained 2/1! Other speculation is great as well when ''garbage'' pops up and streaks. Joker poker is nice to speculate on for 7 spins for quads at 100 hand cycles,and 4 of a kind on ducks is 16.7 odds not bad changes things in your favor for the time. It's a float method making small gains until you hit quads. I prefer Bonus deluxe even occasionally at 50 cent when then cycle is in my favor at 427.8 hands or so. Take DBBL bonus and it's 250 mid range quad payout it's a 650 hand cycle,the 4 aces 6,000 and with the kicker at nearly half the royal cycle at 16 k hands. Think about it 400 vs 6000 and if you speculate at 50 cents and hit it's 10 x better or more. Regular quads on deluxe for any pair pays 400 hit 2 of those and it's the same as 4 aces no kicker using a method that negates variance with the same bonus. On a final note that last secret on even a terrible 7/5 machine is specialty games and DBBl bonus with the ''FULL HOUSE'' It's cycle is 96 hands and pays 40 to 50 as Iv'e seen. You need to have a feel of where your at in the cycle very key. I remember great session from simply hitting a boat on these machines during regular play in 3 spins vs the 35 I get on low paying ones good luck!

[onemoretry]

Once you mentioned turning a negative game into a positive one, I lost interest.

[Jstark]

Just because the average might be 7.7 doesn't mean you'll get those exact results. I lost 5 straight max bet hands on spin poker last night. That's 45 bet hands WITHOUT any pay back! Then on the 6th spin, got one winner out of the 9 hands.

[stevel96a1]

which is more likely to happpen
a royal in the next ten minutes?
or you will never see a royal again...?

you can not answer that correctly can you?

[stevel96a1]

I have a video poker program from Jean Scott called wolf video poker and it's very eye opening with it's simulations. You can alter the programs pay table and make games 130% payback unheard of,but guess what Garbage still shows up in the graph 50% of the time. Any real av machine is like 101.3% or something like that and it' just so trivial,yet doable I guess if your willing to play 9 hours a day 7 days a week. To keep the casino from beating you on negative video poker I generally have a strategy that isn't bullet proof,but heck Ill share it I guess. In the program you can take any bonus game,especially DBBL and make 2 pair 2/1 pay just like JOB and it turns from 96% to 111.2% which is just a program thing you cant do it in real life. Now if you run the sim short term you often lose so you need to understand variance,game types and cycles and use a special speculation method it's the only way to turn a negative game into a positive one,but it relies on some luck,but way less than pure quad luck.

What you need to understand is the 2 pair cycle it's 7.7 so it's very simple. I play Bonus deluxe to start my session on quarters count to 5 spins and if no 2 pair happens I switch to bonus poker and play. Good news is Bonus poker has some decent quads and 4 aces as 400 if you get super lucky,ideally though in 3 spins you get 2 pair and that's a + so youv'e temporarily changed the pay table. Now go back and play your high variance game and repeat! Unfortunately 2 pair will pop up from time to time on the DBBL,but if you manage the cycle you can limit it and each time you get 2 pair on JOB or Bonus you have gained 2/1! Other speculation is great as well when ''garbage'' pops up and streaks. Joker poker is nice to speculate on for 7 spins for quads at 100 hand cycles,and 4 of a kind on ducks is 16.7 odds not bad changes things in your favor for the time. It's a float method making small gains until you hit quads. I prefer Bonus deluxe even occasionally at 50 cent when then cycle is in my favor at 427.8 hands or so. Take DBBL bonus and it's 250 mid range quad payout it's a 650 hand cycle,the 4 aces 6,000 and with the kicker at nearly half the royal cycle at 16 k hands. Think about it 400 vs 6000 and if you speculate at 50 cents and hit it's 10 x better or more. Regular quads on deluxe for any pair pays 400 hit 2 of those and it's the same as 4 aces no kicker using a method that negates variance with the same bonus. On a final note that last secret on even a terrible 7/5 machine is specialty games and DBBl bonus with the ''FULL HOUSE'' It's cycle is 96 hands and pays 40 to 50 as Iv'e seen. You need to have a feel of where your at in the cycle very key. I remember great session from simply hitting a boat on these machines during regular play in 3 spins vs the 35 I get on low paying ones good luck!

wouldn't it be better to change the denomination from .25 to .50 or higher if this worked?
i think i tried this and got mixed results mainly because you are basically trying to guess right while the machine is thinking of a # or hand and sometimes you get it with that system and sometimes you don't the math of 52 deck cards still siting there and the future will always be un-written but we can predict with some degree like the weather reporters

[onemoretry]

which is more likely to happpen
a royal in the next ten minutes?
or you will never see a royal again...

you can not answer that correctly can you?

Not without knowing how many hands you're talking about.