CS 2018

[FloridaPhil]

Bob, and many others, would tell you the best way to save money playing 96% game is to NOT PLAY THE DAMN THING!

This is exactly my point. These experts know most players don't have access to positive VP games. Some consult for casinos and are well aware the odds and comps have been dropping. Instead of telling players how to save money playing these games, they tell them not to play them knowing full well they will play them anyway.

They can't tell them to play smaller because it hurts casino profits. By not addressing this issue they avoid conflicts. I don't care about casino profits. I care about what happens to my bankroll. If you are going to play 96% video poker games, it is cheaper to play those games as small as possible one coin at a time.

[onemoretry]

Some consult for casinos and are well aware the odds and comps have been dropping. Instead of telling players how to save money playing these games, they tell them not to play them knowing full well they will play them anyway.

I wonder if you could identify those who currently consult for casinos, and the casinos involved.

You seem to be saying that because players ignore the advice not to play poor games, it's the fault of the person offering the advice. To me, that's a bit twisted.

[FloridaPhil]

By play, do you mean hands or coin in? Phil doesn't seem to differentiate.

Most recreational players that I know think about video poker on a daily basis. If they thought about it long term, they would take the expert's advice and stay away from the casino. Obviously they don't.

For example, I get to the casino around 10 AM and play until 3 PM. It takes me about an hour and a half to drive each way. That means I have an entire day tied up in these trips. I enjoy the drive and the casino, it's all part of my experience and I try to make it as positive as possible.

If you are going to play VP 4 hours a week every week, you have decisions to make. You can play max coins and take a chance of being back in your car in an hour. You can up your bankroll to last through any downturn. You can also play single coin quarters and play four hours for $100. Because these games are negative, whatever do you will cost you money long term. Upping your bankroll when the game is negative increases your losses making matters worse. Playing these games smaller with single coin saves money long term.

Most Recreational players don't know this or choose to ignore it. They walk into the casino and play until they either hit a big jackpot or their money is gone. The majority of the time it's the latter. At the end of the year if they have the guts to ask for a casino printout, they find they have lost $10,000 or more. Soon or later you will find a better way to enjoy VP, play less or give up the game entirely. Playing cheap is just one of the options. All it takes is a change of mind set. You still lose long term, but the cost is much less.

If you have a choice between losing $10,000 a year or more playing 96% games with max coins or losing a few hundred playing single coin quarters, which one would you choose?

[FloridaPhil]

I wonder if you could identify those who currently consult for casinos, and the casinos involved.

"Million Dollar Video Poker" Part Three - Consulting for Casinos.

[Tedlark]

Phil you wrote: "They can't tell them to play smaller because it hurts casino profits."

So the "they" are experts, I get that. But when these same experts tell you NOT to play a 96% game, by them telling you not to play, wouldn't this too: hurt casino profits? Wouldn't it be logical for a casino to think something was up when machines aren't being played instead of them seeing activity on those machines (even if it were single coin) and otherwise thinking everything was hunky dorey?

[FloridaPhil]

Phil you wrote: "They can't tell them to play smaller because it hurts casino profits."

So the "they" are experts, I get that. But when these same experts tell you NOT to play a 96% game, by them telling you not to play, wouldn't this too: hurt casino profits? Wouldn't it be logical for a casino to think something was up when machines aren't being played instead of them seeing activity on those machines (even if it were single coin) and otherwise thinking everything was hunky dorey?

A great question as usual. If everyone who plays negative casino games took the expert's advice and refused to play the games, the casinos would be empty. They would soon go out of business and be turned into apartments or senior housing. The casinos and the consultants know this is not going to happen. It's the dream of hitting a big jackpot that draws them in, not the long term profit or loss.

Playing single coin on these machines is cheaper, but it takes away the dream. For this reason players continue to play as if they were playing positive games. The dream never happens, so they play until their money is gone. At the end of the year if they have the guts to check the numbers, they are shocked at the cost. Playing single coin quarter VP is not going to catch on like wild fire. It's definitely cheaper, but it's not as much fun for most players. Fun is why they play VP and removing the dream removes a major portion of the entertainment value.

I am not arguing that everyone who plays 96% VP games should switch to single coin quarters. Personally, I don't think many will. The experts say they shouldn't play these games. I am giving them an alternative if they do.

[FloridaPhil]

Perhaps if I used an example it would help? I don't normally play double double bonus. I don't because the odds are usually the worst in the casino. If I play DDB at all, I will throw $20 in the game once in a while hoping to get lucky. I did that yesterday, got lucky and hit four deuces with an ace for $200. I put the $200 ticket in my wallet and went back to Bonus Poker.

Suppose I am going to stay in Cherokee NC for three days? The odds in that casino used to be decent. They are now as bad as Mississippi. Even if I hit a royal flush, my bankroll will take a beating. My loss on one of those trips playing max coin quarters can easily be $1,500. If I play single coin quarters the whole time, my loss will be $200-$300 max. When you are playing one quarter at a time, hitting four aces with a kicker pays $100 and a royal pays $62.50. The fun is the same, only the jackpots are smaller. When I go home I had just as much entertainment only I saved $1200. I think paying $100 a day to play in that casino is worth it. At $500 a day it's not.

Now suppose you are going to play $5 games in Cherokee. The odds are a little better, but still not positive. You better play like a computer because every error is going to cost you big time. Do you think you can get out of there after three days for anywhere near $1,500? Good luck.

[Eduardo]

Please explain one more time how someone can play longer on a small bankroll while betting single quarters than five $5 bills at a time.

[FloridaPhil]

Please explain one more time how someone can play longer on a small bankroll while betting single quarters than five $5 bills at a time.

If you play 500 hands an hour one quarter at a time, you are risking $125 an hour. If the odds are negative, the cost per hour will be the house edge times the hourly coin in. If the house edge is 5%, the cost per hour will average around $6.00.

If you play 500 hands per hour at twenty five dollars a hand, you are risking $12,500 an hour. If the odds are negative, the cost per hour will be the house edge times the hourly coin in. The odds and comps will be better, but the game will still be negative. If the house edge is 1%, the cost per hour will average around $125.00. In order to make this game profitable they must give you comps worth $125 an hour. If you can find a net positive game in Cherokee, the math changes significantly. Unfortunately, you must have the resources to play $25 a hand, suffer through huge swings in your bankroll and play 100% computer perfect. For what? I go to the casino to enjoy myself, not to test my patience, endurance and emotional limits.

[Eduardo]

I sometimes see people playing a single coin or a small denomination. There isn't a line out the door of the high limit rooms. It's almost like everyone already knows this somehow.