New machines unplayable.

The lighter side... playing for entertainment, less concerned about "the math."
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stevel96a1
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Re: New machines unplayable.

Post by stevel96a1 »

if anyone knows a website or webpage to have knowledge from all the video poker machines from the 70s to today id love to read it, i see on youtube the oldest ones have been removed the ones with just cards without the pay schedule posted i can see them on youtube and then theres ones with with all black in the background i played it LV nyny casino i think and then theres VP machines without the words posted what you held but only helighted these can be found at the palms LV, the machines i play on is the same as Wildman they do not seem like the latest model or the oldest but its what we have to work with

nomadgurl
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Post by nomadgurl »

Being fairly new to playing poker I have to ask this question is the same or RNG that is in the casino the same one that is used in playing the online games that we have on this site ?

stevel96a1
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Post by stevel96a1 »

The art of war book always says .know the enemy.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

Vman96 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:52 am
tech58 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:06 pm
Eduardo wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:56 am
I don't mean to take away from the original intent of this topic. I'd love to see an actual study of new vs old machines if anyone here is willing to put in the work. "Feelings" aren't enough for me to be concerned, based on the simulations I ran and the fact that everything people have mentioned can clearly be expected from time to time on perfectly fair machines.
Thank you Eduardo, sincerely, for your perfectly valid points. Your sims. are very impressive but may i ask the apx. age of your program and it's RNG?
MY understanding is the most recent change in RNG methodology was in 2016 from 5&5 to 5 then draw later. The newer machines and recently reprogrammed ones "seem to be different", "feel different", "game flows different","streaky" of course all very subjective observations.
None of us are capable of testing the true randomness of the machines we play but regulators are.
Nevada routinely runs unannounced checks of machines and other games.
My only dog in this fight has been to try to find who verifies the legality of the machines i play!
I have been unsuccessful at the casino level and have no response from the IGRC.
I have never once complained about losses, or suspected rigged machines!
If the new RNG method is still truly random then someone should be able to demonstrate that on machines that we play.
No.

he law was changed in Nevada in 2016 to mandate continuous shuffling of cards while waiting for you to hold your cards. Most other states don't even have the law. But it's been done that way in actual PRACTICE for a LONG time, probably for over 20 years now. Basically, all the machines you long for have the same RNG setup.

Mathematically speaking, (assuming a fairly programmed game), it makes no difference what method of drawing is used. But it's a far superior method for game protection. If the player had the ability to know the draw cards ahead of time for free, they would have a significant edge.

I often assume a few things when people make this complaint.

1) They were lucky to start the game, got hooked, and now aren't as lucky.

2) Paytables have decreased on the games they play over time, and they underestimate the effect poor paytables have on your long term results. For example, $100k coin-in at 9/6 DDB is expected to lose $1020 before mistakes, and $3210 at 8/5 DDB. That's over 3 times as much!

3) And least likely, imo, nationwide conspiracy between IGT and casinos and the games are not programmed according to the law.

As for me, my luck in the last 4 years has been much better than the first 13.

Number of royals on "old" vs. "new" machines for me...

Old: 3
New: 7
[/quote I meant exactly what you said about the 2016 change. previous was 5& 5 at the same time . new method 5 at deal and continue to run with remaining 47 until draw. Pardon my obfuscated verbage.

stevel96a1
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Post by stevel96a1 »

https://imgur.com/a/RaGpcRv
here i show
action gaming RNG
Wolf Video poker RNG
both 3 play both 97% games

100k each hands on each software

time and time again action gaming always comes out on top, im suspecting the older/newer machine have this type of glitch/bug in their software "the fishy smell" that were smelling ofcourse i dont know know how the story is going to end or even which card is going to show up next but if its up to me id rather play action gaming aka the older machine stick w/ what works best.

i threw in boris video poker for fun 12k+hands and still a winner on 94.85% game what a show

Vman96
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Post by Vman96 »

stevel96a1 wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:04 pm
https://imgur.com/a/RaGpcRv
here i show
action gaming RNG
Wolf Video poker RNG
both 3 play both 97% games

100k each hands on each software

time and time again action gaming always comes out on top, im suspecting the older/newer machine have this type of glitch/bug in their software "the fishy smell" that were smelling ofcourse i dont know know how the story is going to end or even which card is going to show up next but if its up to me id rather play action gaming aka the older machine stick w/ what works best.

i threw in boris video poker for fun 12k+hands and still a winner on 94.85% game what a show
This is definitely within the realm of statistical possibility from the pics you posted. This is only one simulation.

Now i don't know exactly what you mean by "time and time" again. But it your insinuating the action gaming simulator returns a higher payback percentage a vast majority of the time in these simulations, like 80+ of 100 100k hand sims tested, then there could be a programming issue in one of the programs.

stevel96a1
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Post by stevel96a1 »

Vman96 wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:53 am
stevel96a1 wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:04 pm
https://imgur.com/a/RaGpcRv
here i show
action gaming RNG
Wolf Video poker RNG
both 3 play both 97% games

100k each hands on each software

time and time again action gaming always comes out on top, im suspecting the older/newer machine have this type of glitch/bug in their software "the fishy smell" that were smelling ofcourse i dont know know how the story is going to end or even which card is going to show up next but if its up to me id rather play action gaming aka the older machine stick w/ what works best.

i threw in boris video poker for fun 12k+hands and still a winner on 94.85% game what a show
This is definitely within the realm of statistical possibility from the pics you posted. This is only one simulation.

Now i don't know exactly what you mean by "time and time" again. But it your insinuating the action gaming simulator returns a higher payback percentage a vast majority of the time in these simulations, like 80+ of 100 100k hand sims tested, then there could be a programming issue in one of the programs.
i did 4 tests on each, Wolf poker may have did better 1 over 4 of the tests on action gaming software i have. thats what i meant time and time again. i am certain if i run a test of a million they will both reach a - # HOWEVER action gaming does better and more bouncy towards the positive variance.

i ran a simulation of 100k on each wolf and action gaming 4 times over action gaming did better 3 wolf did better 1

New2vp
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Post by New2vp »

You do understand that if you toss a fair coin 4 times, the odds of it coming up 3 of one side and 1 of the other are actually greater than the odds of it coming up 2-2, don't you?

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine how that result applies here.

tech58
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Posts: 1204
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:21 pm

Post by tech58 »

Vman96 wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:53 am
stevel96a1 wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:04 pm
https://imgur.com/a/RaGpcRv
here i show
action gaming RNG
Wolf Video poker RNG
both 3 play both 97% games

100k each hands on each software

time and time again action gaming always comes out on top, im suspecting the older/newer machine have this type of glitch/bug in their software "the fishy smell" that were smelling ofcourse i dont know know how the story is going to end or even which card is going to show up next but if its up to me id rather play action gaming aka the older machine stick w/ what works best.

i threw in boris video poker for fun 12k+hands and still a winner on 94.85% game what a show
This is definitely within the realm of statistical possibility from the pics you posted. This is only one simulation.

Now i don't know exactly what you mean by "time and time" again. But it your insinuating the action gaming simulator returns a higher payback percentage a vast majority of the time in these simulations, like 80+ of 100 100k hand sims tested, then there could be a programming issue in one of the programs.
Vman,A comment and a question.
Webster uses words such as "slyly and devious" to define "insinuating",i am certain that was not on your mind, only a word choice thing. BTDT. ;)

What could "a programming issue" possibly involve, with only the pay-table and RNG seeming to be significant?

stevel96a1
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Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 5:52 am

Post by stevel96a1 »

New2vp wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:47 am
You do understand that if you toss a fair coin 4 times, the odds of it coming up 3 of one side and 1 of the other are actually greater than the odds of it coming up 2-2, don't you?

I leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine how that result applies here.
i am well aware of that. are you aware if you toss a quarter heads facing up has a tiny more chance of landing on heads?

Wolf video poker engine always had that pattern of variance behavior to it, i will say this i did a simulation on 1991 dos masque video poker 9/6 jacks on better manage to run it on my phone and it stayed even with the house all the way to a hand # over 3mil it was down around 10k credits at that point.

i ran the same simulation and software on my pc but instead of using magic dox box i used windows xp to run it and it ran 10x faster and it had a hard time staying a float with its bankroll at its speed x10 faster

i aslo ran win poker 6 on running windows 95 (on my samsung tablet) and the variance on triple double bonus for the first time a 97% game reached a winning profit of over 30k credits again highest peak under same conditions exception running my gaming laptop (and windows 10) with a faster processor barely reached 20k high peak

i suspect the older machines have a slower processor which allows us to see the bouncyness of variance

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