Can you determine total $ played?

[Lucky Larry]

A couple of years ago a the marketing director at a casino we visit provided us with a statement which showed total coin played. We were amazed to find that her data showed we had played over a $million coin during the year even though we had played just a couple thousand $ at the casino. For ex. playing $100 in $1 VP you could lose or win each time you played $5 it was added to you coin played total. The minimum with no wins was 20 games X 5 = 100.   But if you won $5 every other hand you have extended your play for and extra 10 hands and played $150.

So the question is to all you mathematical geniuses or anyone who knows, is there a way to figure using my EOY statement from a casino how much coin I really played (range of coin played: every hand could be a loser to some were big winners)? or because we generally play 98% return games we can...?

It is these late night questions that wake me up in the middle of the night.

Thanks, Headed back to bed. 3:18 CST
LL   

[shadowman]

Most casino reports give what is called coin-in. The amount of money gambled. You can do the same by keeping track of your points. I write down my points for each and every session. Where I play it takes $5 to earn a point. So, I know at the end of a session/month/year that if I multiply my points by $5 I will know exactly how much money I have gambled.
 
That doesn't tell you anything about wins or losses. However, it can tell you how many hands you played. In my case if I am playing dollars the number of points will equal the number of hands. If I was playing quarters then I would multiply the number of points by 4 to get the number of hands.
 
Since casinos all handle this differently, you need to modify this based on the particular casinos method of counting points.  

[Lucky Larry]

shadowman,
Thanks for the response. It is hard for me to use session points since we both play on the same card. If we are using my comp's we both play on one of my cards and vice versa. This provides us with a higher average daily play and insures one of us at least keeps a higher player club level. We usually rotate with each visit. Since we both play separately and often varying denominations it would be hard to figure a session coin-in. I track how much we take and play but isn't that different than total coin played? Some of the casinos include coin-in / coin-out, others just total win/loss. Just curious about it. You know idle minds...

The reason I ask is that when we got a spreadsheet of coin played two years ago it showed over $1 million in coin played for the year - after my heart attack from that figure. Ain't no way... (I did ask my wife if she had a secret "G" account.)   We realized it wasn't what we took and played but the continuous coin count being played.

For example:

TI = 20 coins: play 5 win 5; play 5 lose 5; play 5 win 10; play 5 win 15; play 5 lose 5; etc = 25 coin played.

LL

[shadowman]

I once told my wife's father, rest his soul, that we had been to a casino the night before and played through $10,000. He almost had a heart attack. I tried to assure him that we had not risked that much money, but he never quite recovered from the initial shock. And that was back when we were playing quarters.
 
Today, playing dollars, I typically play through over $20K each and every time I gamble all by myself. That is only about 5 hours and it shows how quickly the coin-in accumulates.

[Vol]

Larry,
 
Here is how I've worked out some simple and helpful math ---
 
For a single hand game, assuming you play five coins per hand, there are two variables, the number of hands played (H) and the final change in your bankroll or Net (N).  (+ or -, win or lose).  Let c be your coin value (e.g. $1).  Then your total (Bet) is B=H*5c.  Suppose you win an amount W.  The net change in your bankroll (N) is N=W-B. The return ratio is R=W/B.  So
 
N=W-B=BR-B=B(R-1)=H*5c*(R-1) is the final result.
 
The reason that this is a convenient way to look at it is that the results you quote are just R expressed as a decimal.  For example, "$5 every other hand" is R=0.5. So N= -0.5*H*5c, or H=-2N/5c.  So if you start with and lose $100 in $1 VP, you get to play -2*-$100/$5 = 40 hands before you are bankrupt,  not 30.
 
For a $1 coin game with 98% return, R=0.98, so N=-0.02*H*5c.   So, to lose $100 (N=-$100), will take H=-50*-$100/5c=1000 hands.  Instead of 20 hands, you should get 1000.  But it takes a long time to be playing near R=0.98 because this number includes the Royal, etc. 
 
An interesting case is playing DDB, trying to land that "4" or better. If you look at a return table for DDB, with no "4s" or SF or RF, the return is about 80% or R=0.8.  Plugging this into the result , N=H*5c*-0.2 = -H*c. So you should expect to lose about a coin per hand.  Since you expect one "4' about every 400 hands, on average you will need $400 to be able to play 400 hands.  When that "4" doesn't come, do you stop or keep going ?
 
I hope this will help you figure out your EOY casino statements.
 
Vol 

[OTC]

Is it just me or would math in school been a lot more interesting if they related it to VP?Of course, when they said you'll need this when you're an adult I doubt they intend for me to use it to figure out the return on gambling.

[Lucky Larry]

Is it just me or would math in school been a lot more interesting if they related it to VP?Of course, when they said you'll need this when you're an adult I doubt they intend for me to use it to figure out the return on gambling.


OTC,

First, welcome to the forum. You have found a wonderful place to come and visit.

I can see it now telling my former elementary kids (in the 70's) now learn this because you will be able to figure your gambling wins/losses and your IRA mutual fund % annual gain. Of by the way, you might want to use this formula to check the probability of winning the Mega Millions Lottery....

At least my fourth graders back then knew how to multiply and divide with fractions and decimals. We even taught them how to count change back. Most kids now days couldn't do either without a calculator or the cash register telling them how much to give back.   

However, it is probably a good thing I didn't get hooked on VP until I was close to retirement. I might not have had enough to retire as early....

LL

[spxChrome]

After my loose calculations I figure I get about 75 hands out of $100 playing $1 poker.  So thats 1 quad out of about $600.  Ask for a win loss and don't let the axman see that coin in coin out :O

[Vol]

SPX,
 
If you are getting your share of all except 4's and higher (R=0.8), $100 should give you about 100 hands.  But since a FH or FL come about once per 100 hands, you may be deficient in these so R<0.8 and 75 hands is reasonable (about R=0.73). 
 
With a reasonable bankroll, the FH's etc, willl come, but the 4's can be nasty, maybe none for 1000 hands.
 
Then, what is your strategy? Larry, Shadowman, help us here.
 
 Vol 

[spxChrome]

I play 80% TDB 9/7, the rest DDB 10/6 unless on a progressive then 9/5 with a splash of Double Dueces.  That probally explains my lower hands played.