Talk to me about DDB...

[Frank Kneeland]

@New2VP
I thought you favorite line would be:"There are many areas of life where people can differ in their beliefs andstill have a great chance of success. Mathematics is not one of them ..."
 Who's quote is this? I like it and would like to use it in an article and give credit.~FK

[New2vp]

[QUOTE=spxChrome]@New2VP
I thought you favorite line would be:"There are many areas of life where people can differ in their beliefs andstill have a great chance of success. Mathematics is not one of them ..." Who's quote is this? I like it and would like to use it in an article and give credit.~FK[/QUOTE]A poster on vpFREE that goes by the screen name Cogno Scienti in answering another poster a few years back.What follows is from: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_LT.htm



To: vpFREE@YahooGroups.com
Message: 57829
From: Cogno Scienti
Received: Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:31 AM
Subject: RE:[vpFREE] Re: Feeling Guilty - Trip Report
I understand the long term implications. My point was that by not
worrying about it, I won $16,000. It would not have been any more or less
if the machines were 100% or 98%.

You would have won exactly 5 coins less for every full house and flush
(if you had played 9/6 DB rather than 10/7 DB).

Your math is correct IF one believes in long term. I don't believe that
you can add up the sessions and have them become just one long term
ratio.

There are many areas of life where people can differ in their beliefs and
still have a great chance of success. Mathematics is not one of them ...

Cogno

[backsider]

Id like to quote the OTHER guy if I knew how to write an article I dont see the significance of what Cogno Scienti wrote first. How would winning 5 more coins on each fullhouse and flush impacted the $16000 win? An extra hundred bucks? Might mean something if he did not win that big amount but in this case its no different than losing a hundred bucks.

[New2vp]

bs, I'm comforted to know that you are not on my side in this dialogue.But I think you sell yourself short.  Based on your posts, you certainly write as well as others who espouse these views.

[spxChrome]

...espouse... 
 
Is that like an Internet wife?

[brmcc74]

[QUOTE=New2vp]...espouse... 
 
Is that like an Internet wife? [/QUOTE] LMAO= another $50 word

[New2vp]

C'mon.  At best, that was a $5 word.  I really didn't break out the thesaurus there.I was trying to be a little funny, though I admit that word was not where I saw the laugh coming from (notice I didn't say "originating").  Nevertheless, I am happy I was able to inadvertently set up spx instead.  Should I aim lower?Darn, after reading this I used another one.  I didn't mean "inadvertently."  That was unintentional and an unconscious use of too long of an adverb.  How can I say this more plainly?  It was an accident.  Still too long of a word there?  Ok, it was by chance.  Maybe just bad luck.  No, that doesn't sound right...oh well, I give up!  

[jm002546]

[QUOTE=spxChrome]@New2VP
I thought you favorite line would be:"There are many areas of life where people can differ in their beliefs andstill have a great chance of success. Mathematics is not one of them ..."
 Who's quote is this? I like it and would like to use it in an article and give credit.~FK[/QUOTE]I would too, give the blame to someone else.  And, you found this to be profound?  So, 2 brain surgeons who have different mathematical beliefs cannot both be successful in their field?  Are you simply saying a brilliant mathematician will likely be more successful in that particular field than a liberal arts major attempting to put his rudimentary knowledge of mathematics out for hire?  Did you mean that of 2 brain surgeons, the one who got his credentials in the US might be more reliable than one with a diploma from one of those internet schools?  Guess the thought just didn't grab me.

[New2vp]

I would too, give the blame to someone else.  And, you found this to be profound?  So, 2 brain surgeons who have different mathematical beliefs cannot both be successful in their field?  Are you simply saying a brilliant mathematician will likely be more successful in that particular field than a liberal arts major attempting to put his rudimentary knowledge of mathematics out for hire?  Did you mean that of 2 brain surgeons, the one who got his credentials in the US might be more reliable than one with a diploma from one of those internet schools?  Guess the thought just didn't grab me.jm, is your point is that is ok to have differing opinions than you about whether Cogno's statement is profound?  Maybe that's too deep...or too much of a stretch of logic...ok, fair enough.I think you stated earlier that you were a math major.  It is interesting to me that you resorted to a mathematical method of disproving the literal message of the statement, searching for and stating a contradiction.  With this method, a statement cannot be true if one finds even one situation in which it is not true.  I admit to being comfortable with that logic, so I am largely in agreement with you that Cogno's statement is not universally true.  But is one exception sufficient to overturn theories in other fields?  Not always; in many other disciplines finding an exception is "what proves the rule."  I must admit, I never liked that saying, but I recognize that there are few absolute truths in life (including this statement!).  There do seem to be more in mathematics than elsewhere.I think Cogno's statement is a catchy way of stating that there is less wiggle room in determining whether or not you agree with mathematically derived results than whether you agree with theories in many other fields, though I realize that is not literally what he said.*By the way, in your example I would think that brain surgeons might reasonably disagree to some extent on the workings of the occipital lobe, and even which specific location would be best to drill through the skull to get access, but it would seem less likely that they would disagree about the mathematical coordinates used to determine the varying locations.  To the extent that they use mathematics in their discipline, I would imagine there would be less variability in their mathematical opinions than there would be, say, in how best to inform a family member as to the success or failure of a particular medical operation.Often, if there are different mathematical results, it is because one of the results is in error.I don't know if you would agree with this or not, but it seems to me that opinions among experts vary much more in other disciplines than they do in the field of mathematics.  There is not as much difference between a conservative and a liberal perspective in the value of an integral of a function over a specific range as there is in political science about whether it is better or worse to tax the rich more than they are currently taxed.  In a mathematics class, there is usually not as much room for creativity as there is in a creative writing seminar (though creativity may be important at the frontier of mathematical knowledge to those advanced enough to discover new mathematical truths).  I never had a mathematics professor say, please give me your opinion of this theory and remember there are no wrong answers.**It is difficult to capture 100% truth in a couple lines...but if you take longer to say it, sort of like this post of mine, you will lose most of your audience.  But that's just my opinion.  Others are free to differ in their beliefs.*It might be helpful to remember the context in which the statement was written, plus the observation that more posters are a lot crankier about using proper mathematics in the vpFREE forum than the typical poster here is. **This idea bugged me in other disciplines.  Invariably, after an instructor's pronouncement that there were no wrong answers, upon return of the papers, there were "red mark" corrections and points taken off the grades even though we were supposed to remember there were supposedly no wrong answers. 

[Frank Kneeland]

Wow even this is being debated.I took cogno's quote to mean that 2+2 = 4. If you disagree, you are simply wrong.It's a point I made in my book, but I liked his phrasing. I did not know the context he was using it in and only saw the quote as a standalone. Here's my version...It is possible to have differing viewpoints between two people in mathematics, where this occurs the possibilities are as follows:1. Person A is right. Person B is wrong.2. Person B is right. Person A is wrong.3. Both person A & B are wrong.~FK