How much do we still not know?

[mammajamma]

  I have no couner argument other than the occasional story about some folks seeing specials "menus" when a technician is inside the machine.  Of course a quick glimpse of a menu doesn't really give us any information about it's exact purpose.    I do notice with STP that most of the time the first 20-40 hands don't really produce much.  This seems like it happens all the time.  I've noticed my buddy always saying to me, you always go "deep" on those machines, meaning that I keep playing even after lack luster starts.     My friend has seen  "four of a kind frequency" show up on the menu on the screen inside of a VP machine when a tech had it on and it wasn't a Class III or video terminal machine, and was in fact at an Illinois casino.Also have to comment on the STP game which I never played by choice for years at a casino because it looked too dangerous to me. Then one day I thought, what the heck, I'll play a 2 cent 50 play machine. Chose DW and didn't play all 50 hands but on the very first hand, got an 8 multiplier and was dealt 3 deuces. Cashed out my $800 and some bucks and haven't played it since then.You can study the game and do all the math you want, but if you're not a long time or frequent player, then luck has to be on your side.

[shadowman]

I suspect the screen you friend saw is showing the historic "frequency" of the various results. The casinos also worry about machines not working properly and paying out too much. Hence, they monitor their results just I like suggest everyone does.

[paco13]

Dear MAMMAJAMMA,
I hate you
lol.

[ko king]

Shadowman can't help but notice how much you seem to know about the game and wonder how bad the play would have to be before you even considered the possiblity that certain games not be up to par.  Let's say you played around 150K hands of DDB vp, what numbers would lead you to think something may not be right? How few times  Aces w/kicker, Quad Aces, 2's,3's and 4's w/kicker and quad 2,3 and 4's would it take for you to begin to wonder?

[DaBurglar]

Shadowman can't help but notice how much you seem to know about the game and wonder how bad the play would have to be before you even considered the possiblity that certain games not be up to par.  Let's say you played around 150K hands of DDB vp, what numbers would lead you to think something may not be right? How few times  Aces w/kicker, Quad Aces, 2's,3's and 4's w/kicker and quad 2,3 and 4's would it take for you to begin to wonder?
  Interesting point....I only began to wonder, and to put credence into the stories and experiences shared by several of my friends who have worked or still work in casinos after my extremely fishy and atrocious results at several Atlantic city properties over the past 3-4 years!  Honestly, Before 2010 I was exactly like Shadowman, I refused to even entertain that VP was anything but random number blissful integrity....I always thought the "conspiracy theorists" were just whack job sore losers or religious zealots.   I still believe in most VP machines and casinos, but I am much more circumspect, and humbly accept that there just may be at least a few things I never thought possible that are in fact true.    Mammajamma:   That is EXACTLY the type of menu setting my friends have described and related to me as existing on VP machines....it makes sense both from a business standpoint and a regulatory standpoint (it is EASY for a gaming commission to audit a simple easy to read SCREEN.)  I myself have lingered around technicians working at 2 am in places like the Trop AC and Caesars hoping to catch a glimpse of these menus, but being in a constant seated position in my wheelchair I can only crane my neck so far.....  

[SaraTG]

   I noticed that on the days (Typically a Sunday) when the casino has one of those big cash/car give aways and the place is packed it seems like someone throws a secret switch and the machines just become dead.  As noted I am sure that's not likely but it is just something that I get the feeling of from 32 years of playing poker machines. If I go up there and see on one of the signs that I happened to show up on one of those days by mistake I try and get out of there before noon.  I've become so suspicious and paranoid I stopped using my players club card in the machines because it seemed like when I did I didn't win as much.

[DaBurglar]

lol Sara, my sympathies!   but let me give you some friendly advice, dont ever forget to put your players card in again!   trustme, that is one of the few weapons we players have to level the playing field, earning our points and getting credit for our play, and unlike the workings inside the actual VP machines, the players card port doesnt have anything to do with how the machine deals  or operates.    But I dont blame you for having such feelings like you were being targeted or singled out!   I have met other players who have done this so you are not alone.    Let me ask you this Sara, were you previously successful (i.e. high profit/winnings) and now feel the casino is getting back at you?  if so, quit while you are ahead and play somewhe  else!  Dont give them their moolah back!

[SaraTG]

Let me ask you this Sara, were you previously successful (i.e. high profit/winnings) and now feel the casino is getting back at you?  if so, quit while you are ahead and play somewhe  else!  Dont give them their moolah back!

 
  I have NEVER been successful playing video poker. EVER. In 32 years. I have hit the occassional royal flush or straight flush in a bonus round and walked out a big winner for the day but I have never had a year where I turned any kind of "profit" and would say most years have seen me down a LOT.    It just seems that in the past few years things have taken a much more noticable nosedive. Actually to be honest since "Hollywood Casino" has taken over the place I have gone it seems the machines have gotten a LOT tighter.  I don't keep any written records of win/loss but as I mentioned I have been at this almost since the day video poker was invented for casinos and I have a pretty good sense of when a machine or machines are more "dead" than normal.
 
   But since you mentioned it. I am planning to take all of 2013 off from the casino. (I hope I hope I hope!)    I will make 2 more trips up there this year. Once over the Christmas break and I will pay a final "goodbye" visit on New Years eve and spend several hours just wandering around and take it all in and ponder the years I've spent there.

[davidearl]

   I noticed that on the days (Typically a Sunday) when the casino has one of those big cash/car give aways and the place is packed it seems like someone throws a secret switch and the machines just become dead.  As noted I am sure that's not likely but it is just something that I get the feeling of from 32 years of playing poker machines. If I go up there and see on one of the signs that I happened to show up on one of those days by mistake I try and get out of there before noon.  I've become so suspicious and paranoid I stopped using my players club card in the machines because it seemed like when I did I didn't win as much.
     Sara, it's not all your imagination. Since 2008, when the economy tanked, casinos have tightened the video poker machines. I was there on the 15th of last month, and got a hand pay. It was after midnight, when the casino loosens the machines though! Before that, I was down $297 at that casino for the year.    It still looked like Harrah's when I was there. They still had two banks of .99+ 25 cent video poker. I would think with comps you should be able to make a small profit. I keep a notebook of the casinos, days, games played etc. When you do decide to go back, I advice you to do the same. Use a full size notebook so you have plenty of space to keep track of anything you want. I found a game, last year, that must have had a program error. I was up $2480  before casinos started getting rid of the machines, or changing the pays/fixing the error. I was able to respond in time to keep most of it, $2308.    Enjoy your vacation away from the casinos. But keep playing here......'cause if you don't use it, you lose it.     Dave

[ko king]

When I first started playing vp I was like a lot of people, I knew how to play poker but I was one of those people who thought vp was no different than slots, I can even remember thinking the casino probably had a buttom they could push to control whether the machines were paying out or not. I started out playing maybe once every 2 months or so, splitting my play between slots and vp. As time erny by and I started to play more I began to respect the game of vp far more than slots and started asking questions and reading about the way the vp games operated, payback percentages and statistics. I thought I pretty much knew it all when it came to vp and even shared info with folks who had very little knowledge of the game and I trusted the casino and the regulations 100%. I'm not so truting and convinced any longer and it's not based on a simple 150K hands played, more like 750K hands at one particulair casino that I will not name. The casino opened a few years back and after playing a short time I began to question what type of vp I was playing.I was assured I was playing standard Class III video poker so I pushed on, things really didn't improve much but there was the occassional flash of fair and decent vp that kept me going. The losses began to mount and I started to pay very close attention to all the premium hands and I was coming up far short of every single one other than the royal flush. I was also noticing I was hitting a lot of straight flushes, something that was very rare at the other casino. It took me a while to figure out why though, I was getting 4 cards to the flush off the deal around 2 times above the expected amount of once every 36 hands. I also noticed noticed I could make this oddity disappear if I went and played the progressive vp machines at the same casino. With all due respect for Shadowman, until he sits down at this casino and plays a few hundred hands the words "why" and "how" could they do this mean very little to me when I've been there, done that.