Distressing CET VP Stories

[ko king]

  ko king you get charged for asking for a win/loss statement?
I know, blew my mind, I raised cain about it and they said it was policy, it actually took longer than two weeks to get the darn thing and a phone call to see what the hold-up was.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=olds442jetaway]I have yet to find anyone who has had decent long term vp results since the fall of 2010. My sample is just from CT., but the list is very long!
I got with another player who plays as much as I do, knows the game well and understands the correct holds, we both play the same game and same denomination. We both requested win/loss statements in 2011 and our results were almost the same, playing only 98.98% payback vp my actual return was 95.5% and his was 95.3% for 2011. I ran into the guy a while back at my favorite casino which is much farther away and he was enjoying the game again but staying away from the other closer casinos, I told him he did the right thing because things hadn't changed a bit. I paid my $20 and waited 2 weeks to get my 2012 win/loss statement at the neghborhood casino and it was once again 95.5% actual payback. I understand that many folks would look at the difference between 98.98% and 95.5% as a small difference but when you play as much as I do at $10 a hand that 2.48% difference can add up to some serious money. [/QUOTE]
Just an observation, but I see a lot more play at both lower denom and less than max bet over the last few years. So in the universe of Video Poker hand possibilities, could it be that the premium hands that we seek are being 'eaten up' by folks playing low, and you do not see them as often with your normal play?  

[ko king]

[QUOTE=ko king][QUOTE=olds442jetaway]I have yet to find anyone who has had decent long term vp results since the fall of 2010. My sample is just from CT., but the list is very long!
I got with another player who plays as much as I do, knows the game well and understands the correct holds, we both play the same game and same denomination. We both requested win/loss statements in 2011 and our results were almost the same, playing only 98.98% payback vp my actual return was 95.5% and his was 95.3% for 2011. I ran into the guy a while back at my favorite casino which is much farther away and he was enjoying the game again but staying away from the other closer casinos, I told him he did the right thing because things hadn't changed a bit. I paid my $20 and waited 2 weeks to get my 2012 win/loss statement at the neghborhood casino and it was once again 95.5% actual payback. I understand that many folks would look at the difference between 98.98% and 95.5% as a small difference but when you play as much as I do at $10 a hand that 2.48% difference can add up to some serious money. [/QUOTE]
Just an observation, but I see a lot more play at both lower denom and less than max bet over the last few years. So in the universe of Video Poker hand possibilities, could it be that the premium hands that we seek are being 'eaten up' by folks playing low, and you do not see them as often with your normal play?  [/QUOTE]
I thought about that myself but guys like Shadowman convinced me that other players results should have no bearing on my personal results. I will say this though, I was playing $2 DDB at max play on a machine for over an hour, got on the machine next to it and the next person to sit down was dealt Aces w/kicker playing $1 denom with 1 credit bet.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe][QUOTE=ko king][QUOTE=olds442jetaway]I have yet to find anyone who has had decent long term vp results since the fall of 2010. My sample is just from CT., but the list is very long!
I got with another player who plays as much as I do, knows the game well and understands the correct holds, we both play the same game and same denomination. We both requested win/loss statements in 2011 and our results were almost the same, playing only 98.98% payback vp my actual return was 95.5% and his was 95.3% for 2011. I ran into the guy a while back at my favorite casino which is much farther away and he was enjoying the game again but staying away from the other closer casinos, I told him he did the right thing because things hadn't changed a bit. I paid my $20 and waited 2 weeks to get my 2012 win/loss statement at the neghborhood casino and it was once again 95.5% actual payback. I understand that many folks would look at the difference between 98.98% and 95.5% as a small difference but when you play as much as I do at $10 a hand that 2.48% difference can add up to some serious money. [/QUOTE]
Just an observation, but I see a lot more play at both lower denom and less than max bet over the last few years. So in the universe of Video Poker hand possibilities, could it be that the premium hands that we seek are being 'eaten up' by folks playing low, and you do not see them as often with your normal play?  [/QUOTE]
I thought about that myself but guys like Shadowman convinced me that other players results should have no bearing on my personal results. I will say this though, I was playing $2 DDB at max play on a machine for over an hour, got on the machine next to it and the next person to sit down was dealt Aces w/kicker playing $1 denom with 1 credit bet.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that is what I seem to find a lot of. If you look at it from a "hands played on a particular machine" perspective, I think a lot of what we would consider premium hands for a particu;ar machine go unnoticed at less than max bet.

[DaBurglar]

I just do not get this. You people are convinced the games are rigged but you go and play said machines that are rigged. Are you gluttons for punishment? Or do you have dumb F*** tattooed on your forehead? You say the casino is cheating you yet you go back you only have yourself to blame.
 Funny how NO ONE, not even tedlark, on this forum has a problem with the above post, its tone, its implications, its spirit, etc.......  Truth is edog, YOU are the one being what you described with this ridiculous OVERSIMPLIFIED INNACCURATE representation of the issue and what Ko King and Myself and others have been saying, particularly about AC.   And if you do not even PLAY in AC EVER, then even more shame on you.....and furthermore, the implication of your post is that YOU MUST ALWAYS WIN AND NEVER LOSE, unlike the rest of us who honestly report our experiences no matter how abysmal.   Is that it?   Your always WIN, or make a profit?    Hose down your pants with flame retardant material before you answer that question dude......  First off, KO KING, you are entirely correct in your statement that it was about 4 years ago, Spring 2009, that Atlantic City VP REALLY started to fall apart and return percentages plunged from what the paytables suggest all the way down into the low 90s or worse (slot machine territory.)   That is exactly what my records and play show and what I have been reporting all along.....and in my research and quest for understanding and answers, when AC casinos REALLY started getting into financial trouble in 2008-2009 as the recession persisted and competition kept gobbling up their business, in desperation they started looking for ways to get blood out of the rocks they were left with......one such rock existed in the form of their gaming regs calling Video Poker a form of "SLOT" machine.    Since slots are only required to return 83%, little by little they have been setting their VP machines (not all of them but a significant portion, perhaps as many as 50% of total inventory) to return percentages far below the expected 97-98% that most paytables imply. At first (for about two years) I did not want to believe this and just assumed all the 8/5 Bonus Poker (99.37%) I was playing that was giving me 90-91% was just a Bad run or ****ty luck......then others close to me reported the same results, I started looking further into it, talking to anyone I could find, including the NJ gaming folks, all the while still playing to see if the results would even out like you;d expect.   I only found FAR more evidence that AC treats its VP like slots, and that when you sit down at any given VP machine, you do not know what it will return.....it may be the paytable, or it may be far less.   Only way to know is play a LONG TIME......and as far as I can tell, this is Legal/acceptable business practice under current NJ regs, no matter how much VMAN wants to tell us it is NOT.   NO ONE AT NJ GAMING has ever told me that it is WRONG for a video Poker machine (aka SLOT machine) to return a percentage as low as 83%, no matter how I phrase the question or how many times I ask it.....they always use vague nebulous terms like "it falls within acceptable range for a gaming machine blah blah blah", same spiel the casino management at Trump, Trop, Resorts and elsewhere likes to spill...... Yet, as I stated before EDOG, in the last 4-5 months I have indeed greatly curtailed my VP play in AC.    Still doesnt excuse your disrespectful rant.   

[edog743]

It was not a rant. This is actually quite simple if you know or suspect you are being cheated why go back? Like I said you are very stupid or you enjoy being cheated. I have not been in a casino in years. Maybe all you people that think you are being cheated should do the same. My post was not disrespectful at all It was stating a opinion on all your whining DA. You ever think no one else thinks about my post the way you do is because they agree with me?

[olds442jetaway]

It was not a rant. This is actually quite simple if you know or suspect you are being cheated why go back? Like I said you are very stupid or you enjoy being cheated. I have not been in a casino in years. Maybe all you people that think you are being cheated should do the same. My post was not disrespectful at all It was stating a opinion on all your whining DA. You ever think no one else thinks about my post the way you do is because they agree with me?

Not even worth the .00001 calories I would burn writing a response, but Happy Thanksgiving anyway!

[Tedlark]

Not even worth the .00001 calories I would burn writing a response, but Happy Thanksgiving anyway!

 
  And you have the nerve to criticise me? Having Native American blood, please forgive me if I do not wish you a Happy Thanksgiving. 

[olds442jetaway]

If you read my posts, you will find that I did not address you at all Ted. You must have mixed up some of the cited quotes and replies as mine.

[Tedlark]

  I apologize olds, I had erroneously got you mixed up with another poster here. I know you and I have never been sideways with each other and again, I apologize. In that vein,have a Happy Thanksgiving.