Hand pays = comps disappearing ?

[DaBurglar]

Dont throw your back out Billyjoe doing all this digging!!!!I dont even know what the real issue here is now, but yes Adelson is an American and Sands is an American Company/Corporation that has Foreign divisions, subsidiaries and what not......it all flows BACK to the American Headquarters, but obviously each individual property )or office or division or whatever) must abide, follow and function within both the requirements of the actual COUNTRY in which it is located and operates, as well as the requirements of the HOME Country (i.e. USA)......this is an obvious point.....and is not what I am debating or even thinking about.   In huge, multinational corporations, everything is intertwined, and yet everything is also individualized and unique.But what you managed to uncover, that Adelson only paid a miniscule 1.9 million bucks in Taxes to the USA on a 2.2 BILLION dollar profit for his Chinese property highlights a huge economic issue (problem) with the US tax code and job market(s), and why so many companies in so many industries have sent their operations overseas, thus showing the futility for politicians to ask questions like "where are all the friggin jobs???"     The jobs are gone, either overseas to lands where taxes and expenses and regulations are less burdensome than the USA, or the jobs have been eliminated because of technology (computers) replacing the need for a human being.Adelson is paying next to nothing in US taxes on his Macau Profits, but I'd love to know what he is having to pay the LOCAL governments (either in taxes or bribes or both!)    If you can find that out Billyjoe, I will buy you a gold plated shovel in AC this october!But companies listed on Foreign stock exchanges often are simply the local "version" of whatever stock listing they have on Wall street.....and obviously, a broker in china can purchase stock in Sands-USA as easily as SANDS-China....likewise an American broker can buy both.     Today's world is totally integrated and interrelated......the term "foreign" really has lost much of its relevance in the business world.

[Tedlark]

Backpedaling as usual DaBurglar.

[DaBurglar]

Backpedaling as usual DaBurglar.contributing absolutely NOTHING of substance, worth, and/or interest as usual tedlark

[DaBurglar]

Backpedaling as usual DaBurglar.and you must surely realize that since THE VAST MAJORITY of your posts serve only one purpose, to take pointless meanspirited snotty potshots at WHATEVER i am saying at that particular moment, that most other readers and posters here see this as well, right?But obviously you do not care about any of that......only to spit and smear whatever point I am contributing.     So it is pretty obvious when I talk about the fact that this country is full of people who have no idea on how to change or fix the problems besetting the USA, is full of people who are only interested in whining and complaining and making sure that "THE OTHER SIDE" does not get any of what it wants......I am describing a nation full of TEDLARKS.

[BillyJoe]

Dont throw your back out Billyjoe doing all this digging!!!!I dont even know what the real issue here is now, but yes Adelson is an American and Sands is an American Company/Corporation that has Foreign divisions, subsidiaries and what not......it all flows BACK
No - I think you missed the point. This is not IBM. There is no US Corp called Sands China Ltd - it is a foreign company with US investors. The taxes were NOT paid to the US, since there was no US Corporation, but rather a Cayman Island 'corporation' with "Articles of Association" to govern it's operation.

As for the bribes, that is how business is conducted overseas. I am sure there are numerous "off balance sheet" transactions that need to happen to conduct business there.

Thank you for the concern about my back, but it was actually nice to look at a good Balance Sheet for a change, anyway.

[DaBurglar]

No - I think you missed the point. This is not IBM. There is no US Corp called Sands China Ltd - it is a foreign company with US investors. The taxes were NOT paid to the US, since there was no US Corporation, but rather a Cayman Island 'corporation' with "Articles of Association" to govern it's operation.

As for the bribes, that is how business is conducted overseas. I am sure there are numerous "off balance sheet" transactions that need to happen to conduct business there.

Thank you for the concern about my back, but it was actually nice to look at a good Balance Sheet for a change, anyway. Wow, I guess I did miss something, so let me apologize for that.   We are way off the original topic and i forgot how we ended up here so that adds to my confusion.So according to this post, you are saying the Sands China Company Ltd is actually a CAYMAN ISLANDS operation???     its still owned by Adelson right?   And he apparently exercises control of its operations via these "Articles of Association"?     I must admit, in all my experience and study I have never encountered this specific type of arrangement, but obviously Adleson is doing this to avoid paying US taxes.Here is where I guess we diverged.....your previous post:  QUOTE=billyjoe]  Sands China Ltd, which owns all of
Adelson's Macau interests, is a publically traded company on the HONG
KONG stock exchange, as a subsidiary of Las Vegas Sands Corp, which is
on the NYSE. The "Articles of Association" lists the Company Office as
the Cayman Islands.

Per their 2013 Annual Report, on profits of $2.2B (in US dollars,
based on the exchange rate at the time), they paid $1.9M (US) in income
taxes. Do the math for their tax rate.    

Dang facts... [/QUOTE]
You mentioned it as a "Subsidiary" of LAs Vegas Sands......I assumed this meant either wholly owned or pretty close.    That would lead me to think Sands China Ltd was simply another "finger" of adelson's overall business, which is US in origin and base.   What you now post indicates something totally different.Also, the profit of 2.2 billion and taxes of 1.9 million you cite seems to be only Sands China Ltd.   But the taxes were described in US dollars, and since the company was described as a Subsidiary, you can see how I missed something here.....plus, I am still confused as to WHOM the 1.9 million in taxes was actually paid?????You dont need to answer any of this, I'm just trying to demonstrate my confusion was sincere and not deliberate, lol.And I apologize if you really truly are having Back trouble....I only made the shovel joke because I was sincerely impressed by this info you made the effort to dig up and share.But I will say I agree and understand the point you made about bribes.    When I worked out in California in marketing for a Australian PAckaging and consumer goods conglomerate from 1992 thru 2005, I had to deal with (and learn) how southeast asia worked (and DID NOT work) since the Aussie Corp that owned us has us shipping stuff all over that part of the world.   I actually had to deal with a CEO in Thailand whose name was..... "X Wu"   Yes, his first name was simply the letter "X".    Makes bribing easy I guess........."Hey Miss Secretary, send MR X his monthly payoff would ya?"

[DaBurglar]

I think the reason you see fewer hand pays is because so many players have moved down in denomination.  With the odds dropping like they are, it makes sense.  Getting back to the story, I meant to post a positive remark about this post from Phil.      It is a very good point, in my opinion.      Not only are fewer people visiting Atlantic City, the ones who remain (like me) are either running (or wheeling) in place and never moving up in Denom....or they are backsliding down into lesser denom games.     Bad news for the casinos, and bad news for the players who like all their all you can eat buffets to be 100% FREE!!!

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] No - I think you missed the point. This is not IBM. There is no US Corp called Sands China Ltd - it is a foreign company with US investors. The taxes were NOT paid to the US, since there was no US Corporation, but rather a Cayman Island 'corporation' with "Articles of Association" to govern it's operation.

As for the bribes, that is how business is conducted overseas. I am sure there are numerous "off balance sheet" transactions that need to happen to conduct business there.

Thank you for the concern about my back, but it was actually nice to look at a good Balance Sheet for a change, anyway. Wow, I guess I did miss something, so let me apologize for that.   We are way off the original topic and i forgot how we ended up here so that adds to my confusion.So according to this post, you are saying the Sands China Company Ltd is actually a CAYMAN ISLANDS operation???     its still owned by Adelson right?   And he apparently exercises control of its operations via these "Articles of Association"?     I must admit, in all my experience and study I have never encountered this specific type of arrangement, but obviously Adleson is doing this to avoid paying US taxes.Here is where I guess we diverged.....your previous post:    Sands China Ltd, which owns all of
Adelson's Macau interests, is a publically traded company on the HONG
KONG stock exchange, as a subsidiary of Las Vegas Sands Corp, which is
on the NYSE. The "Articles of Association" lists the Company Office as
the Cayman Islands.

Per their 2013 Annual Report, on profits of $2.2B (in US dollars,
based on the exchange rate at the time), they paid $1.9M (US) in income
taxes. Do the math for their tax rate.    

Dang facts...
You mentioned it as a "Subsidiary" of LAs Vegas Sands......I assumed this meant either wholly owned or pretty close.    That would lead me to think Sands China Ltd was simply another "finger" of adelson's overall business, which is US in origin and base.   What you now post indicates something totally different.Also, the profit of 2.2 billion and taxes of 1.9 million you cite seems to be only Sands China Ltd.   But the taxes were described in US dollars, and since the company was described as a Subsidiary, you can see how I missed something here.....plus, I am still confused as to WHOM the 1.9 million in taxes was actually paid?????You dont need to answer any of this, I'm just trying to demonstrate my confusion was sincere and not deliberate, lol. And I apologize if you really truly are having Back trouble....I only made the shovel joke because I was sincerely impressed by this info you made the effort to dig up and share.
[/QUOTE]
No problem. I used the US dollars in the post, just for clarity. The Annual Report actually had figures in multiple currencies.

It is not unusual for companies to 'incorporate' in offshore lands to avoid US taxes. Primarily, though, the Board of Directors for Sands China Ltd looks a lot like the Board for Las Vegas Sands. By keeping an association with his US company by calling it a 'subsidiary' in The Annual Report, Adelson can attract US investors, but still not have to pay any US taxes on his Macau earnings. Not illegal - just marketing, as stock analysts look at a lot of factors when evaluating companies.

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar I am actually pretty smart. This is both scholastic and street smarts. Toss in some good old fashioned common sense and you have me. I don't feel the need to stand on a soapbox here like you do, that's only one of the differences between us. I rebut your posts because by choosing to show us how smart you are; you open yourself up to it. It amazes me sometimes the things that you post here but it befuddles me sometimes as well. Usually befuddles beats amazes by a nose and occasionally befuddles beats amazed by 30 lengths.  Intellectual types like you bore the crap out of me.  Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. - Mike Tyson 

[DaBurglar]

  DaBurglar I am actually pretty smart. This is both scholastic and street smarts. Toss in some good old fashioned common sense and you have me. I don't feel the need to stand on a soapbox here like you do, that's only one of the differences between us. I rebut your posts because by choosing to show us how smart you are; you open yourself up to it. It amazes me sometimes the things that you post here but it befuddles me sometimes as well. Usually befuddles beats amazes by a nose and occasionally befuddles beats amazed by 30 lengths.  Intellectual types like you bore the crap out of me.  Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth. - Mike Tyson You are VERY smart, both scholastically and streetwise......yeah, says YOU.  Your posts and everything you write here totally contradicts such a statement of fact, but as I pointed out to you before, you are addicted to HYPOCRISY.Still not convinced?   Ok,......."Intellectual types like you bore the crap out of me...."     Which naturally is why you do ALMOST NOTHING ELSE HERE EXCEPT respond to my posts pointing out everything that YOU think is wrong with me....I am so boring that you cannot help talking at or about me.Yeah you are smart Ted.....talk about "opening oneself up to this stuff".......stop sniffing glue, that might help