How much do we still not know?

[didigoftam]

Thank you for taking the time and responding to my message. I wish one day I can meet one of those guys at IGT and have a talk with them about HOW they can possibly rig the machines, that is very interesting to me. Since When I'm dealt 5 cards, the machine can not predict what cards I will hold.
If this rigging the machine theory is to be correct, then it means that the Computer chip must be an incredible processor that can process this information in milliseconds...
For example if I'm dealt 7 7 K K 4... then the machine must assume that I will be holding the 2 Pair and make sure that the next card is not a 7 nor a K. But if I'm a novice and hold K K then the machine must process this info so fast and make sure that I do not make QUADS or TRIPS....
I guess I will always wonder..... Until then I'll enjoy playing perfect strategy....

thank you for your time.
Very interesting Forum, i enjoy reading all the comments.

[Tedlark]

You are wrong to think that a video poker machine is assuming anything about your play. The machine cannot assume you will hold any given card(s) dealt to you.

[Tedlark]

welcome to the forum didigoftam....First, you are simply the LATEST person to ask these same questions and wonder about these same issues.   The gaming regs of most US states that offer casino gambling (including the horribly worded regs of New Jersey) go out of their way to emphasize that games like Video Poker must be random and must have accurate payoff info in the paytables to allow us to figure out the best play per hand.Casinos, in following the regs, do so out of (hopefully) a LONG TERM thinking perspective that prevents them from possibly trying to reap short term benefit from rigging their games at the risk of supposedly losing their license(s).This all presumes and supposes that (1) Casinos ALWAYS act rationally and abide by regulations (2) the people running the casinos will never go "rogue" and try to pull some Sh88T when they think no one is looking or will find out....and (3)  That the gaming authorities/regulators in each state are "On the ball" and will always discover and find out any such cheating or rigging IF it ever happens.I myself, will always allow for the possibility that a VP game that I sit down to play may not be properly set up or functioning.    I choose to believe that MOST, Vastly so, will be properly functioning.    But the plain truth is, we will never ever know, except possibly someday LONG after the fact (i.e. AFTER we have lost our money).I know in the case of New Jersey that for the last 4 plus years, the gaming control division has been so short staffed and suffered such cutbacks that I cannot believe they inspected or spot checked even a small fraction of total machines.   Something to think about.....




DaBurglar this was a clear, well written post made by you. I have a question though: On 1/21/14 you wrote in a post "that you were told by the folks in the gaming office on TENNESSEE Ave that Borgata's video poker machines were not "slottified" like many other Atlantic City casinos video poker machines are."

Do you still believe this?

[BillyJoe]

Thank you for taking the time and responding to my message. I wish one day I can meet one of those guys at IGT and have a talk with them about HOW they can possibly rig the machines, that is very interesting to me.
I have had the pleasure of speaking with IGT Video Poker programming technicians, most recently at the Southern Gaming Summit this past year. What they told me was, of course, it is possible to program 'alteration' add-ons to the sequences generated in the game. Any such add-on programming, however, would make the machine non-conforming to gaming regulations.

[didigoftam]

I was in Vegas this week end. Lost $47,000 Playing VP $10 & $5 DENOM. The entire Trip I hit 7 small Jackpots... Tried my luck @ ARIA ... Nothing there... Tried my luck @ Bellagio ... Nothing There.... Tried my Luck @ The Encore... Nothing there Either... I played about 20 Hrs. in 2 days... No 4 ACES... No 2's 3's 4's .... No Royal... No Straight Flush...Biggest hit I had was 4 Kings on $10 Machine ($2500)... Its getting much more difficult to win these days....

[BillyJoe]

I was in Vegas this week end. Lost $47,000 Playing VP $10 & $5 DENOM. The entire Trip I hit 7 small Jackpots... Tried my luck @ ARIA ... Nothing there... Tried my luck @ Bellagio ... Nothing There.... Tried my Luck @ The Encore... Nothing there Either... I played about 20 Hrs. in 2 days... No 4 ACES... No 2's 3's 4's .... No Royal... No Straight Flush...Biggest hit I had was 4 Kings on $10 Machine ($2500)... Its getting much more difficult to win these days....
But you used the operative word.... LUCK

I know that 20 hours in two days is a lot of play for one person, but in the universe of VP play, it is quite a small sample.

[damule]

Thank you for taking the time and responding to my message. I wish one day I can meet one of those guys at IGT and have a talk with them about HOW they can possibly rig the machines, that is very interesting to me. Since When I'm dealt 5 cards, the machine can not predict what cards I will hold.
If this rigging the machine theory is to be correct, then it means that the Computer chip must be an incredible processor that can process this information in milliseconds...
For example if I'm dealt 7 7 K K 4... then the machine must assume that I will be holding the 2 Pair and make sure that the next card is not a 7 nor a K. But if I'm a novice and hold K K then the machine must process this info so fast and make sure that I do not make QUADS or TRIPS....
I guess I will always wonder..... Until then I'll enjoy playing perfect strategy....

thank you for your time.
Very interesting Forum, i enjoy reading all the comments.

I think the thing to do here would be to fake the machine out and just hold the 4. This will confuse the little robot inside and you'll draw the other three 4s and a kicker!

[DaBurglar]

[QUOTE=DaBurglar] welcome to the forum didigoftam....First, you are simply the LATEST person to ask these same questions and wonder about these same issues.   The gaming regs of most US states that offer casino gambling (including the horribly worded regs of New Jersey) go out of their way to emphasize that games like Video Poker must be random and must have accurate payoff info in the paytables to allow us to figure out the best play per hand.Casinos, in following the regs, do so out of (hopefully) a LONG TERM thinking perspective that prevents them from possibly trying to reap short term benefit from rigging their games at the risk of supposedly losing their license(s).This all presumes and supposes that (1) Casinos ALWAYS act rationally and abide by regulations (2) the people running the casinos will never go "rogue" and try to pull some Sh88T when they think no one is looking or will find out....and (3)  That the gaming authorities/regulators in each state are "On the ball" and will always discover and find out any such cheating or rigging IF it ever happens.I myself, will always allow for the possibility that a VP game that I sit down to play may not be properly set up or functioning.    I choose to believe that MOST, Vastly so, will be properly functioning.    But the plain truth is, we will never ever know, except possibly someday LONG after the fact (i.e. AFTER we have lost our money).I know in the case of New Jersey that for the last 4 plus years, the gaming control division has been so short staffed and suffered such cutbacks that I cannot believe they inspected or spot checked even a small fraction of total machines.   Something to think about.....




DaBurglar this was a clear, well written post made by you. I have a question though: On 1/21/14 you wrote in a post "that you were told by the folks in the gaming office on TENNESSEE Ave that Borgata's video poker machines were not "slottified" like many other Atlantic City casinos video poker machines are."

Do you still believe this?[/QUOTE]You need to be careful Ted, when you arrogantly challenge people you do not like that someone (like me) who recognizes YOU for what you are does not turn the tables on you and show the world just what a hack (or jerk, take your pick) you REALLY TRULY are,The forum post you tried....TRIED....to pass of as a direct quotation of mine is false.....you distorted what I wrote.    HERE is the post you claim to be summarizing, and twisting it in the process:http://forum.videopoker.com/forum/forum ... 3125#63125         (this is the URL to the exact post)And here is what I really wrote in the body of the text/post  that you tried to pass off as something else:" I will play some VP at Borgata this time around and see what I can do,
and see what offers  I might get in the mail later on.......JIMDEUCES
has me convinced, along with the folks at the gaming office on TENNESSEE
Avenue, that Borgata's Video Poker machines are not  "SLOTTIFIED" like many other AC casinos! "I am sure any intelligent person can see the difference between what you QUOTED me as writing, and the bold italicized ACTUAL quote of what I really wrote.     As to what corner you were trying to paint me into, or what you were trying to get myself to paint me into, I can speculate, but I really do not care.  ALL I do care about is you, if you are going to waste your time doing this idiotic behavior, you do it as intelligently (and accurately) as possible  lol......get it???    "Idiotic Intelligent"???   Another manifestation of your hypocrisy.       But since your inclusion in this group of intelligent people cannot be assumed, allow me to offer a little clarification:     The people in the gaming office never used the word "Slottified", first off;  that word is my own invention, and is how I choose to describe the apparent acticity of many of the VP machines I have encountered all over AC...hence i was NEVER told by gaming officials that ANYONE's machines are (or ARE NOT)  "Slottified".....In talking with them, and others, and doing my own comparisons, as my original quotation states, I CONVINCED MYSELF that Borgata's machines (at that time) were more likely to NOT be rigged or altered (or slottified)....and I did this "convincing of myself"  ON THE BASIS of the info garnered from talking with other people INCLUDING some people I have spoken to over the years in the NJ gaming office on Tennessee Avenue!!!!As for the other AC casinos whom I suspected of being "Slottified", as I stated in my other Post(s)  I do not WANT to believe that they might be anything other than fair, but I will always allow for the POSSIBILITY, especially since my results in AC over the past 5-plus years were so statistically out of bounds in terms of expected ranges and deviations.

[DaBurglar]

I have had the pleasure of speaking with IGT Video Poker programming technicians, most recently at the Southern Gaming Summit this past year. What they told me was, of course, it is possible to program 'alteration' add-ons to the sequences generated in the game. Any such add-on programming, however, would make the machine non-conforming to gaming regulations. Thanks Billyjoe for posting this.......at least this shows that a lot of what I stated over these years is indeed POSSIBLE, and not some farfetched conspiracy theory.I posted a number of times in the past sharing a lot of what I had been told by other people I have met and known over the years who have worked in and around casinos and gaming in general.   Some of these people (dealers, slot managers and techs, casino executives, among others) spoke of casinos being able to "modify" their VP machines in such ways as to allow them to change the return percentage without necessarily changing the paytable.    Over the years, during casual conversations that were NOT centered or focused on proving or disproving one theory or another, you pick up and learn stuff, much of which at the time doesnt mean squat, but which, years later, you have an "AHA!" moment and you see things in a different light.....surely I am not the ONLY one for whom this is relevant or has happened????

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar I thank you for adding the word "slottified" to the English language, I'll look for it in the next published edition of Websters. I fully understood at the time that "slottified" could only be a word created (words are not invented) by you so what term did the people in the office on TENNESSEE Ave use that you substituted with your term: "slottified"?   Thank you for caring about me. Am I still in conversations you have with your girlfriend?