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Shiny,
I did that last time out, went from quarters to dollars when i hit quads. Like they say you can pay it back in very quickly. But the couple times I hit another quad at dollars more than made up for it. Lucky hits though because they came in a short time.
$100 bankroll won't last long even at quarters I'm afraid, unless you get lucky fast.
Newbie to VP
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EDC1977
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2001
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:12 pm
Doesn't the proverbial "hit factor" increase with denom, that is wouldn't you be more likely to hit at a higher denom or is the RNG oblivious to denom? I know that rule of thumb applies to slot machines but don't know about VP games. Is that pure myth about VP games?
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faygo
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2925
- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:55 am
The only part of a VP machine that knows what denomination you are playing is the Bill Acceptor.
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cddenver
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:54 pm
Doesn't the proverbial "hit factor" increase with denom, that is wouldn't you be more likely to hit at a higher denom or is the RNG oblivious to denom? I know that rule of thumb applies to slot machines but don't know about VP games. Is that pure myth about VP games?
Yes, that's a myth. If it were true, then a game like 9/6 DDB with a long-term return of 98.98% would have a different return at every denomination, since the big hitters wold be occurring at different rates based on denomination. If you check out any source with info on game returns (books or software) you'll just see one long term return for each game, not one for each denomination.
Yes, that's a myth. If it were true, then a game like 9/6 DDB with a long-term return of 98.98% would have a different return at every denomination, since the big hitters wold be occurring at different rates based on denomination. If you check out any source with info on game returns (books or software) you'll just see one long term return for each game, not one for each denomination.
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Eduardo
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2963
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:19 pm
Well kep in mind that pay tables can be different on the same machine at different denominations, but as far as odds of hitting those payouts that's right.
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EDC1977
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2001
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:12 pm
Well kep in mind that pay tables can be different on the same machine at different denominations, but as far as odds of hitting those payouts that's right. So all those hit frequencies apply regardless whether its five cents or five dollars? I always thought the paytables were the same but it took longer to hit the same hands at lower denoms despite having the same paytable numbers. I know for sure that applies to earning anything in comp value.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
Inside the machine the denomination is probably kept as a single variable that is only used by the game program to determine the win amount. The RNG has no idea what denomination is being played.
As for earning comps that is usually based on the amount of money wagered. Since you will usually wager less at lower denominations then you earn fewer comps. However, the denomination is not really relevant. A nickel player who played five times as much as a quarter player will earn the same comps in most casinos.
As for earning comps that is usually based on the amount of money wagered. Since you will usually wager less at lower denominations then you earn fewer comps. However, the denomination is not really relevant. A nickel player who played five times as much as a quarter player will earn the same comps in most casinos.
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damule
- VP Veteran
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:59 pm
Doesn't the proverbial "hit factor" increase with denom, that is wouldn't you be more likely to hit at a higher denom or is the RNG oblivious to denom? I know that rule of thumb applies to slot machines but don't know about VP games. Is that pure myth about VP games?
I believe a better question to ask is "doesn't the pay schedule improve with increased denomination?"
In most cases this is true, but I have seen various examples of where this is not true and many players, even experienced ones get sucked in by this theory. My best example of this is an indian casino here outside Phoenix, AZ.
I love 10-play Supertimes Pay Double Double Bonus. I will play for quarters and sometimes even dollars if the pay schedule is right. However, at this casino the pay schedule for dimes is better. All of the supertimes quarter return schedules pay 8-5 here for flush-straight. Most of the dollar return schedules pay 8-5, some pay 9-5. And this is true of 3,5, and 10 play. However, all the 10-play dimes pay 9-5. Plus, keep in mind, these are denominations and returns found on the same machines.
Supertimes pay DDB 9-5 has appr a 1.5% increase in return than does the same game at 8-5. In other words this casino is penalizing it's higher end players. When I factor in rewards credits, especially on 4-10 times bonus days, I have over a 100% return on dimes, but never on quarters and usually not on dollars.
I believe a better question to ask is "doesn't the pay schedule improve with increased denomination?"
In most cases this is true, but I have seen various examples of where this is not true and many players, even experienced ones get sucked in by this theory. My best example of this is an indian casino here outside Phoenix, AZ.
I love 10-play Supertimes Pay Double Double Bonus. I will play for quarters and sometimes even dollars if the pay schedule is right. However, at this casino the pay schedule for dimes is better. All of the supertimes quarter return schedules pay 8-5 here for flush-straight. Most of the dollar return schedules pay 8-5, some pay 9-5. And this is true of 3,5, and 10 play. However, all the 10-play dimes pay 9-5. Plus, keep in mind, these are denominations and returns found on the same machines.
Supertimes pay DDB 9-5 has appr a 1.5% increase in return than does the same game at 8-5. In other words this casino is penalizing it's higher end players. When I factor in rewards credits, especially on 4-10 times bonus days, I have over a 100% return on dimes, but never on quarters and usually not on dollars.
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EDC1977
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 2001
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:12 pm
Sadly, it would take as much if not more to equal the next denom up in comp value. Then again, the penny player at max coin-in would play four times as much as the nickel player at max coin-in per deal, 1 cent x 100 vs. 5 cents x 5 coins per deal. Though the denom is lower, will they earn comp dollars faster because of more coin-in per deal?
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MikeA
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:50 pm
I'm not sure I have the gist of this topic's question understood.
Certainly what Shadowman has said is spot on. That RNG that determines what cards are dealt out by the machine has no (or legally should have no) idea what denomination you are playing and that denomination should not have any impact on the logic in the program other than to be used as a multiplier against the credit balance to determine how much money to dispense if "Cash Out" is pressed...or to display a running $'s balance during the game.
Damule is VERY MUCH correct that pay tables can and do vary depending on the denomination played and the not always nor even "most of the time" are the best pay tables at the highest denominations.
Generally speaking, I have seen better pay tables on machines with multiple denominations at something higher than the lowest denomination but not always the highest one offered on the machine. I notice this because I like to play at the nickel or dime level when offered and get frustrated because I often see better pay tables at the Quarter level.
But as for "hit frequencies".....that's beginning to sound like voodoo or something equally mythical. That concept, if valid, would violate the functionality of the requirement that the machines mimic the randomness of a hand dealt from a deck of 52 cards....and that is a requirement that I have seen in every regulatory document in every State that I have seen such documentation for.
I maintain that there are only three legitimate reasons to play higher denominations when those are offered on a machine:
1. You can get a better pay table at a higher denomination
2. You can earn comps faster by getting more coin-in on a machine
3. You have the money to risk and can win more (or lose more) by playing at a higher denomination assumming that the pay tables for the higher denomination are equal to or better than the paytables at a lower denomination.
Off hand, I can't think of any other reason to go to a higher denomination.
Video Poker earns comps seldom at a rate greater one-half that of slot machines. I think we can blame the Internet on that factor! T
he casino management deciding the policies of their comp distribution have some how come under the impression that Video Poker Players have come up with some kind of strategy in playing the poker machines that gives those VP players the ability to lose less than a player playing an equal amount of money in a slot machine...GO FIGURE!
Certainly what Shadowman has said is spot on. That RNG that determines what cards are dealt out by the machine has no (or legally should have no) idea what denomination you are playing and that denomination should not have any impact on the logic in the program other than to be used as a multiplier against the credit balance to determine how much money to dispense if "Cash Out" is pressed...or to display a running $'s balance during the game.
Damule is VERY MUCH correct that pay tables can and do vary depending on the denomination played and the not always nor even "most of the time" are the best pay tables at the highest denominations.
Generally speaking, I have seen better pay tables on machines with multiple denominations at something higher than the lowest denomination but not always the highest one offered on the machine. I notice this because I like to play at the nickel or dime level when offered and get frustrated because I often see better pay tables at the Quarter level.
But as for "hit frequencies".....that's beginning to sound like voodoo or something equally mythical. That concept, if valid, would violate the functionality of the requirement that the machines mimic the randomness of a hand dealt from a deck of 52 cards....and that is a requirement that I have seen in every regulatory document in every State that I have seen such documentation for.
I maintain that there are only three legitimate reasons to play higher denominations when those are offered on a machine:
1. You can get a better pay table at a higher denomination
2. You can earn comps faster by getting more coin-in on a machine
3. You have the money to risk and can win more (or lose more) by playing at a higher denomination assumming that the pay tables for the higher denomination are equal to or better than the paytables at a lower denomination.
Off hand, I can't think of any other reason to go to a higher denomination.
Video Poker earns comps seldom at a rate greater one-half that of slot machines. I think we can blame the Internet on that factor! T
he casino management deciding the policies of their comp distribution have some how come under the impression that Video Poker Players have come up with some kind of strategy in playing the poker machines that gives those VP players the ability to lose less than a player playing an equal amount of money in a slot machine...GO FIGURE!
