Gold Exclusive
My Favorites
its because less straight draws on fpdw deuce 5,7, of hearts is not correct
rf,
This is true on fpdw due to the higher return for the 4oak and the lower returns for the fh and flush. But on NSUD 16/10 and 15/9 it is correct to hold 1 or zero gapped straight flush draws with 1 or 2 deuces beginning with 5-7 and 6-7 especially because the flush returns 3 versus 2 as on fpdw.
Deuces Wild
-
shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
I wanted to avoid discussing strategy until we knew the paytable in question. However, I see the discussion has moved on anyway.
1) I hope you now understand that 3SF is not meaningful. You need to know exactly which cards you mean. A deuce with a 3 and a 4 is different than a 6 and a 7. That is due to the proximity of the deuce and the lowest card available to make a straight. It's easier to think of a deck where the 2s are removed and replaced by 4 jokers. Clearly, you have the same situations but now you can see there's a hole in the deck where the 2s are. This means less straights and SFs.
That's also why gaps are important. A deuce with a 6 and 7 is different from a 6 and 8. Again you can make less straights and SFs. If you doubt this write them all down on a piece of paper. Sometimes that helps.
2) Once again the JT is usually a good hold but Ace high rarely is and King high only sometimes. Once again. as explained above, it's those darn straights and SFs that make the difference.
3) While it might seem the poor payback of straights would make holding 4 of them poor, it turns out you have to figure in the additional hits for the 2s. For a normal 4567 type hold you have four 3s, 7s and 2s that make the straight. That gives you 1 out of 4 chance (12/47) of filling it out. This makes it much better than a complete re-deal. However, consider the 3456 and you only have four 2s and 6s that fill it in. Obviously this is not quite as good. However, it turns out in deuces wild game that return 2:1 on straights that this is still slightly better than a re-deal. OTOH, there are games that only return 1:1 for a straight. You would not hold these cards in that game.
Once again, fill us in on the paytable and we can be a little more accurate.
1) I hope you now understand that 3SF is not meaningful. You need to know exactly which cards you mean. A deuce with a 3 and a 4 is different than a 6 and a 7. That is due to the proximity of the deuce and the lowest card available to make a straight. It's easier to think of a deck where the 2s are removed and replaced by 4 jokers. Clearly, you have the same situations but now you can see there's a hole in the deck where the 2s are. This means less straights and SFs.
That's also why gaps are important. A deuce with a 6 and 7 is different from a 6 and 8. Again you can make less straights and SFs. If you doubt this write them all down on a piece of paper. Sometimes that helps.
2) Once again the JT is usually a good hold but Ace high rarely is and King high only sometimes. Once again. as explained above, it's those darn straights and SFs that make the difference.
3) While it might seem the poor payback of straights would make holding 4 of them poor, it turns out you have to figure in the additional hits for the 2s. For a normal 4567 type hold you have four 3s, 7s and 2s that make the straight. That gives you 1 out of 4 chance (12/47) of filling it out. This makes it much better than a complete re-deal. However, consider the 3456 and you only have four 2s and 6s that fill it in. Obviously this is not quite as good. However, it turns out in deuces wild game that return 2:1 on straights that this is still slightly better than a re-deal. OTOH, there are games that only return 1:1 for a straight. You would not hold these cards in that game.
Once again, fill us in on the paytable and we can be a little more accurate.
-
Dynomite
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:44 pm
Good food for thought. You're a wealth of knowledge. I've done a bit of reading on VP in the past and I will also check out the sources you've recommended. My wife and I mostly play at Empire City in Yonkers, NY and at the Tropicana, Bally's and Taj Mahal in Atlantic City. Where do you mostly play? Vegas? Thanks again!
-
Dynomite
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:44 pm
If I am holding 2/hearts, 6/hearts and 10/hearts and a deuce, wouldn't make sense to go for the flush?
-
damule
- VP Veteran
- Posts: 551
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:59 pm
If I am holding 2/hearts, 6/hearts and 10/hearts and a deuce, wouldn't make sense to go for the flush?
Dyno,
The 2 of hearts is a deuce. If flushes pay 3-1, and you're dealt 3 suited cards and a deuce it is correct to hold those 4 cards in most deuces wild games. Please save your time posting these questions and go to vpgenius.com and click on your game and pay table, go to the hand analyzer and put in your cards as you want. It will break down the correct holds with the expected returns for what you hold.
Dyno,
The 2 of hearts is a deuce. If flushes pay 3-1, and you're dealt 3 suited cards and a deuce it is correct to hold those 4 cards in most deuces wild games. Please save your time posting these questions and go to vpgenius.com and click on your game and pay table, go to the hand analyzer and put in your cards as you want. It will break down the correct holds with the expected returns for what you hold.
-
shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
My memory may be failing me but isn't Empire, NY a Class II gaming venue? If I'm right then the paytable and the holds are meaningless. VP in Class II establishments are simply glorified slots. You can always tell by checking the help text or if a genie, bingo card or some special feature is used to return some money.
-
Dynomite
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:44 pm
Mule,
That was my typo. What I meant was one deuce plus 3 suiteds (such as 4,8,10 or whatever) -- as you surmised. Pardon my error. I actually have been using tutorials etc.. and that's why I wanted to trot out this scenario. In this very videopoker.com website "test your skills" section, it actually recommends throwing down all the suiteds as well as the garbage card and just holding the wild card. I totally agree with you and I beg to differ with the software. I'll go for the flush. I am already seeing there are divergences of opinion on tactics. So I guess we can only be well trained robots to a degree but then subjectivity and luck take over.
Thanks for indulging me and I will now stop bugging you with scenario after scenario. Good luck on the VP machines!
DYNOMITE
That was my typo. What I meant was one deuce plus 3 suiteds (such as 4,8,10 or whatever) -- as you surmised. Pardon my error. I actually have been using tutorials etc.. and that's why I wanted to trot out this scenario. In this very videopoker.com website "test your skills" section, it actually recommends throwing down all the suiteds as well as the garbage card and just holding the wild card. I totally agree with you and I beg to differ with the software. I'll go for the flush. I am already seeing there are divergences of opinion on tactics. So I guess we can only be well trained robots to a degree but then subjectivity and luck take over.
Thanks for indulging me and I will now stop bugging you with scenario after scenario. Good luck on the VP machines!
DYNOMITE
-
Dynomite
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:44 pm
Wow, that's terrific insight Shadowman. I honestly did not even know what a Class II venue was. All I do know is that for approximately 2 years I did very well playing VP at $5 per hand at Empire City in Yonkers. Plenty of Str. flushes; 4 of a kinds; 5 of a kinds; wild RF's and reasonable hits on 4 deuces and then it dried up. However, I now hit those hands quite a bit when playing 5 quarters at Yonkers. Small jackpots have replaced large jackpots. My theory is that it's simply been reprogrammed.
How about Atlantic City, NJ casinos? Do you consider them to be glorified slots too?
Where are the real VP machines? Vegas on the strips? Vegas at the local joints?
Where have you dudes been all my life?
How about Atlantic City, NJ casinos? Do you consider them to be glorified slots too?
Where are the real VP machines? Vegas on the strips? Vegas at the local joints?
Where have you dudes been all my life?
-
Dynomite
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:44 pm
good luck on the VP's Shadow!
--------
--------
-
shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
Most VP machines are Class III and completely random. That include all NV casinos and Atlantic City.
The key difference with class II VP (also called VLTs) is that the win or loss is determined immediately when you press deal. You could never hold a single card and you would end up with the same result. That is why they have a secondary method of paying out wins (genies/etc.).
I believe the typical return on these machines in NY is around 92%.
The key difference with class II VP (also called VLTs) is that the win or loss is determined immediately when you press deal. You could never hold a single card and you would end up with the same result. That is why they have a secondary method of paying out wins (genies/etc.).
I believe the typical return on these machines in NY is around 92%.
