Two Men Arrested for Exploiting Design Flaw in VP

[kjohn]

The debate continues...But hey Brmcc some people think the government has our best interest at heart....Tax money is spent wisely...Our food supply is free of dangerous chemicals....There are no toxins in our polident, hairspray, etc...Household chemicals are safe...Vaccines are for our best interest and so on and so forth...My thought is anyone who thinks the gambling industry as a whole is honest and without fraud is living in another world.For goodness sakes, this is an industry that was controlled by the Mafia for many years...I'll still play as I love the game but with my eyes wide open, knowing the cards are stacked against me...I don't think every machine is manipulated and certainly some casinos are better than others but as a whole it's buyer beware...

[brmcc74]

Heres a simpler form of my point=
If a company like IGT puts a product out for the public to play AND some garage junkies figure out how to cheat it, Does that not make you atleast think about the rest of the package of RNG  and etc that they are selling us? I figure, maybe how can I trust their product I guess. Maybe it doesnt make sense to anyone but I think outside the box. Their product failed or  maybe they failed their product, thats a fact.

[kjohn]

"Federal authorities charged more than 100 doctors, nurses and physical therapists in nine cities with Medicare fraud Thursday, part of a massive nationwide bust that snared more suspects than any other in history."

On the other hand maybe the casino industry should run our Medicare system...Apparently it's more honest!!!!

[brmcc74]

ya there you go, then it will all be good

[kjohn]

Perhaps but I'm not going to BET on it....

[New2vp]

Buyer beware, indeed!  Is that warning anything like, "Don't believe everything you read?"  I know I try to separate the intentions of the writer from the words and also try to discern which statements from a writer are facts and which are opinions.For example, how many people believe the words that were used to start this thread by spx?  "Well I was almost convinced by the people on this site that everything was Random and the Gaming Comission had it all figured out. [emphasis added]"  Hands anyone?  I think spx might have been using just a touch of sarcasm when this statement was written; that is more likely than having his mind changed by this story.  He might have already been leaning to the other side of the opinion street, but that's just a guess on my part.In the news article, how many believe that this was simply someone working in their garage accidentally uncovering a "software glitch" or a "design flaw?"  Maybe a few more.  This might be believable.  Certainly the journalist appears to believe that, but then again the journalist may not be a software guru or a legal expert.  The story leads with, "Two men were arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud."  I'm presuming this part was not the journalist's opinion, but a fact.  Is experimenting with a machine in your garage illegal?  A criminal conspiracy usually involves at least two people agreeing to commit an unlawful act, then taking some action toward its completion. The action generally indicates that those involved in the conspiracy knew of the plan and intended to break the law. Of course I have no more information than any of the other posters and may have a lot less than a couple, but I would bet that this is suspected as being  intentional cheating by someone in a position of trust who sabotaged the software rather than someone accidentally discovering something in his garage.Certainly I believe that people are motivated by trying to improve their lot in life, some by legal means and some by illegal means.  But how people extrapolate from a couple people trying to cheat the gaming industry to a conclusion that this provides evidence of the gaming industry trying to cheat the public seems to me a bit of a stretch.Believe what you will for whatever reason you like.  When I don't know which side of an argument to be on, I try to examine both the facts and opinions like all of you before making a conclusion.  If I still can't decide, I like to see which side the smarter people are defending.  That doesn't always lead to correct decisions, but "That's where the smart money is!"And of course, if I disagree with the "smarter people" on a particular issue, I generally conclude that they weren't the smarter ones after all.

[spxChrome]

  Some of you are kinda missing the point.
 
I think the point is that the machines are not as regulated and fair as some people try to make them out to be.  There may be a goal posts that are set and regulated but anything in between the hash marks are fair game. 
 
Would it be so impossible to believe that certain chips have less paying lower quality hands to reduce longevity to the higher paying hands.  It would be a wash as a whole and well within the requlations but would result more cashflow from the casual player. 
 
Bottom line is sure the RNG maybe tested and regulated but who knows what if... then... algorithms exists beyond that only regulation.
 
Would you really be surprised?
 
If so you were probally really surprised when the American Coin ran fraud chips from 1986 to 1989.  For 3 years they ran these chips right under the nose of the same Gaming Commission.  It was not until they were under investigation for something unrelated they found the chips did not match the master chips that were on file with the Nevada Gaming Commission.
 
And you are probally also surprised by these two guys who exploited the IGT software and again the same Gaming Commission.
 
So don't be suprised if you don't get a guaranteed payback % from complete Randomness.... no contradiction there.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[New2vp]

I'm not at all surprised that different people with different opinions on a subject see the same story and come away from it with their viewpoints unchanged.  People give more weight to stories that they feel supports their position and undermine those that don't.  No surprise there.  Logic gets beat by emotion lots of times; and, every now and again, emotion is right...but not always.

[shadowman]

  
I think the point is that the machines are not as regulated and fair as some people try to make them out to be.  Nothing has been provided that indicates this at all. Look at the auto industry for some analogies. Ever have a recall? Does that mean the car manufacturers are intentionally making defective cars? Does that mean they have no regulations? This could simply be a programming bug. Or it could be an intentional back door put in by one of the software developers. The one thing it isn't is any problem with randomness.  It is interesting how some people will jump on this and continue to IGNORE that VP machines are tested over and over again in many states to make sure they comply with randomness criteria.
Now if you can find examples of where this testing is circumvented all over the country then maybe we will have something to discuss.

[feline57]

           Damule: I agree with you about the greed factor. They probably could have kept going with smaller wins spread out. I'm not saying it's right ,but too much too soon drew attention to themselves.