Which would you play?

[brmcc74]

[QUOTE=backsider] Then why not just say the right play is not to bother playing? Who wants to lose no matter how many coins they play per hand, and why would anyone not include that in their teachings?
 
Some people might find that within their entertainment budget. There could be other benefits or comps that make it worthwhile. I'm just pointing out the math. [/QUOTE]  I can easily see what youre saying mathwise.

[zhaopang]

I use Jacks or Better strategy and so far it didn't bring me much harm, Although I didn't win a million either

[Frank Kneeland]

If one played 800 hands/hour of dollar play his average hourly loss for the max bet would be $5*800*1.6%. That is $64/hour. The one coin bet loss would be $1*800*2.8%. That is $22.40/hour. The numbers don't lie.No, but the numbers can be made to lie, though I'm not suggesting you did this here. You did leave out the value of the person's time, which I think is pertinent.Let's say they were trying to accumulate $200 in theoretical loss to validate a casino trip. Playing the higher loss rate game would take them 1/3 as much time to reach the same goal. A 20 hour a week $40 an hour job is the same income as a 40 hour a week $20 and hour job, except it gives you more free time to do something else. Time is money. So here slower is worse.If for some inexplicable reason you have no choice but to play a negative expectancy machine, the faster you can get it over with the better...and the sooner you can get back to doing positive things.Oh and one last thing. Casinos rate the theoretical return of their machines based on perfect play with max coins inserted. Even if you increased your hold by playing less than max coin, you wouldn't get any increased benefit to your slot club account for the amount of action. Your total coin in on that game would be graded for game type only, not strategy. You'd be getting the game without the fame.Of course, all this assumes you have a reason for playing. If wasting time was your reason for playing then the slower loss rate game would be favorable. Reading a book might be the better choice as well.~FK

[backsider]

[QUOTE=shadowman] If one played 800 hands/hour of dollar play his average hourly loss for the max bet would be $5*800*1.6%. That is $64/hour. The one coin bet loss would be $1*800*2.8%. That is $22.40/hour. The numbers don't lie.No, but the numbers can be made to lie, though I'm not suggesting you did this here. You did leave out the value of the person's time, which I think is pertinent.Let's say they were trying to accumulate $200 in theoretical loss to validate a casino trip. Playing the higher loss rate game would take them 1/3 as much time to reach the same goal. A 20 hour a week $40 an hour job is the same income as a 40 hour a week $20 and hour job, except it gives you more free time to do something else. Time is money. So here slower is worse.If for some inexplicable reason you have no choice but to play a negative expectancy machine, the faster you can get it over with the better...and the sooner you can get back to doing positive things.Oh and one last thing. Casinos rate the theoretical return of their machines based on perfect play with max coins inserted. Even if you increased your hold by playing less than max coin, you wouldn't get any increased benefit to your slot club account for the amount of action. Your total coin in on that game would be graded for game type only, not strategy. You'd be getting the game without the fame.Of course, all this assumes you have a reason for playing. If wasting time was your reason for playing then the slower loss rate game would be favorable. Reading a book might be the better choice as well.~FK[/QUOTE]
 I'm getting lost in all this, it's headache city right now so please help. It looks as if you're guaranteeing the guy that he'll lose money if he spends time at a negative machine? How does that work? i spend maybe an hour every casino visit on no full pay DW. I win some and lose some. In fact I do just about the same when I can get a seat at the fullpay ones at the Palms.

[Frank Kneeland]

I'm getting lost in all this, it's headache city right now so please help. It looks as if you're guaranteeing the guy that he'll lose money if he spends time at a negative machine? How does that work? i spend maybe an hour every casino visit on no full pay DW. I win some and lose some. In fact I do just about the same when I can get a seat at the fullpay ones at the Palms. No need for a headache. This is the "It's not you, it's me speech".Pros and some casinos track what is called Theoretical (or theo) and put this number above actual results for determination of efficacy of play and eligibility for comps and such.If one were to cycle $20,000 through a machine rated at 99% return your theo would be guaranteed to be -$200 regardless of your actual results. Some casinos can give what is called override comps based on actual results, but they don't like to. Casinos and pros alike prefer to base all decisions on what you SHOULD BE DOING, rather than on what has actually happened.So in the scenario I confabulated, I was speaking of guaranteed loss, but I was speaking of guaranteed theoretical loss.Sorry to have confused you. Most pros like myself make decisions based solely on what should happen and ignore actual results. Paying attention to how one does on a daily basis is simply too biased and misleading of a way to make judgments on anything gambling related. Daily results are needed for tax filing and partner square-up, nothing more.In most pro circles ALL pertinent decisions about one's play are made in advance of sitting down, and in most cases in advance of entering the casino. Once you get there Lady Luck (AKA randomness) has reign, but her siren song should be ignored lest ye crash upon the rocks.~FKP.S. I saw no issue correlating creatures from Homer's  Odyssey with Lady Luck as they are both equally mythological.

[backsider]

Ok thank you, you mean the theo which I presume is how casinos process comps. I'm not a very regular player so my real results on a visit mean something to me.

[Frank Kneeland]

Ok thank you, you mean the theo which I presume is how casinos process comps. I'm not a very regular player so my real results on a visit mean something to me.Well alrighty then. Remember not to look Medusa in the eyes, and always carry a towel in case you should happen upon the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal.~FK

[shadowman]

Frank, you appear have missed the point of my post. I'm simply pointing out that betting max coin is not necessarily the best approach on all machines. That's all.  I see people all the time betting max coin on very poor paytables. I've even heard them tell other people they are stupid for betting less. Sometimes it's good to point out that isn't always true.

[Frank Kneeland]

Frank, you appear have missed the point of my post. I'm simply pointing out that betting max coin is not necessarily the best approach on all machines. That's all.  I see people all the time betting max coin on very poor paytables. I've even heard them tell other people they are stupid for betting less. Sometimes it's good to point out that isn't always true. Yes, I wasn't disputing your dispute of that. Or at least I didn't think I was. Which means I am now disputing your observation that I was disputing your dispute. BTW: Did you get my point about trees being a bad place to fish for trout? Oh wait... I didn't  write it yet. Never mind. I think I'll have some tea now.~FK

[brmcc74]

Im not a PRO but make sure that you can live with the consequences of a less than 5 credit royal on any game for that matter