Roveer 2/10

[roveer]

first off, congrats on these hits, the fact you got them on STP has me totally floored, but happy for you. But now I would appreciate some honesty and candor here, as I often find these threads showing "hits" to be more frightening than inspirational: First, which Harrahs was this>?  Vegas>?  Or AC?  or somewhere else? Second, and this is of course optional to answer, but how long a session was this?  Over a day?  Several days?   How long did u play, and what was the final tally for your session?  Up, down, even, or,,,,,,>>>?????     What was your starting bankroll??  I have to ask because, after four plus years in AC watching and playing STP I have seen more people totally wiped out than anything else....and I mean wiped!   The machines NEVER payout premium hands when multipliers show up, starting hands are abysmal at a rate and in a manner that is abnormal compared to single line games, and bankrolls disappear so much faster in general...... My suspicions about the integrity of Atlantic city's video poker in general is MAGNIFIED greatly when it comes to the multi line variants of all games, especially Super times pay.  It just is so clearly unprofitable in the most extreme and anysmal manner.... Since Roveers hits clearly show that a casino could conceivably take a real bath/beating with these multi line Video Poker variants, it is just inconceivable to me that the casinos would put these games in and around the floor without there being some huge edge or factor that we players dont know about programmed into the game(s) .... it is NOT just a RNG selecting cards, there is some sort of weighted disadvantage to the players' hands or something,,,,,!
 Believe me brother, I know your pain...  I've been critisized over the past 2 years for just posting my pictures.  It has been said that I give people "hope" when it comes to these games and that is irresponsible of me.  I adopted the stance "don't do what I do", and used to put it in my posts.   Here's what I can tell you. 1.  These hits came from Harrah's AC 2.  I like to go on Sunday's as it's much emptier and this trip was nice and empty. 3.  These hits all occurred from about 7pm Sunday to about 2pm Monday afternoon with a few hours sleep.  I think I went to bed around 4am and came back out at 10am 4.  My bankroll varies, I usually am between 3-6k but have at times gone higher.  This trip was somewhere around 5k 5.  Result was positive, but far less than the total of all the hand pays.  As you and many others know, it takes a huge amount of money to feed these monsters and it also takes a firm grip to know when to stop.  This is one of my biggest issues, stopping.  This trip saw good profit go back in because I was mentally unwilling to stop.  Probably has more to do with life outside the casino than what's going on inside. Understand that the last 3 handpays on Monday (pictures are out of sequence), the 2,555, 2,675, 6,490. all came from a starting bankroll of 600 dollars.  Things were just running my way.  I've had it happen before.  I took a 3k bankroll on a visit last year and came home with 38k.  Sometimes it just lines up. Here is something I'd like everyone to consider. You know when they say not to go to the casino depressed.  This might be the best pieces of advice you can ever take.  Most of my losing sessions, my big losing sessions have come when I am in a negative state of mind.  This past trip, I had done a lot of work and shoveled a lot of snow and felt pretty good about taking some time off.  The result was much better.  I played slower, I was able to get my grove going, I enjoyed myself, and the hand pays started racking up.  When I go and I'm anxious, waiting for the handpay, slapping, going super fast etc (you all know what I'm talking about), then the money is gone in a flash.  Take this bit of advice and put it to good use. I think everyone here know's how I feel about the possibility of "rigging".  Recently I made a dedicated post which sparked a lot of back and forth, but no real definitives.  Hopefully soon we will have some good first hand knowledge about this, but more on that later.  My advice,  Play how you want to play, enjoy yourselves, don't take any of my pictures as "hope" that you will do the same.   VP for me is an evolution.  In year 1 it meant one thing to me, in year 2 it meant something else, and now in year 3 it's got a different meaning all together.   I'll probably always play VP, but I see this chapter (the high bankroll, high volitility) games coming to an end.  Last year wasn't a good year and I am always evaluating the value of VP compared to the cost.  Everyone should do the same. Roveer 

[cubd1]

first off, congrats on these hits, the fact you got them on STP has me totally floored, but happy for you. But now I would appreciate some honesty and candor here, as I often find these threads showing "hits" to be more frightening than inspirational: First, which Harrahs was this>?  Vegas>?  Or AC?  or somewhere else? Second, and this is of course optional to answer, but how long a session was this?  Over a day?  Several days?   How long did u play, and what was the final tally for your session?  Up, down, even, or,,,,,,>>>?????     What was your starting bankroll??  I have to ask because, after four plus years in AC watching and playing STP I have seen more people totally wiped out than anything else....and I mean wiped!   The machines NEVER payout premium hands when multipliers show up, starting hands are abysmal at a rate and in a manner that is abnormal compared to single line games, and bankrolls disappear so much faster in general...... My suspicions about the integrity of Atlantic city's video poker in general is MAGNIFIED greatly when it comes to the multi line variants of all games, especially Super times pay.  It just is so clearly unprofitable in the most extreme and anysmal manner.... Since Roveers hits clearly show that a casino could conceivably take a real bath/beating with these multi line Video Poker variants, it is just inconceivable to me that the casinos would put these games in and around the floor without there being some huge edge or factor that we players dont know about programmed into the game(s) .... it is NOT just a RNG selecting cards, there is some sort of weighted disadvantage to the players' hands or something,,,,,!

I COMPLETELY agree. These hits seem impossible. I don't even come close to this luck on a .5 nicket 10 play DSTP.

[BillyJoe]

Great reply, Roveer. I am a firm believer that every recreational VP player needs a Money Management plan of some sort when they play in order to pocket some profits and avoid the wipe-outs. The important thing, of course, is to just have fun.

[rascal]

Roveer gave a good and honest reply to DaBuglar's post. I am probably the person Roveer is referring to when he says someone criticized him for offering false hope about STP. If I am, indeed, the one he was referring to, no hard feelings, and no offense was intended.
 
My experience with STP is extensive and I have won a lot of money at it. But I have also lost a lot of money at it. In many years of playing it, I have NEVER won serious money by taking repeated jackpots over a lengthy period of time as Roveer does. My big wins were always from lucky shots that I collected and then I ran from the casino. The three largest hits combined totaled more than $100,000.
 
The only way I have ever been able to play STP on an 8-5 machine such as Roveer was playing for such a long length of time, was to start with a decent bankroll and then shovel all of my jackpots right back into the machine. While I have never played 13 hour sessions as Roveer did on this trip, I have had 6 or 7 hour sessions on many occasions, and sometimes at machines with better paytables than what Roveer is showing.
 
So.....if in fact Roveer played 8-5 STP for 13 hours and left with any money at all, he deserves to be warmly congratulated. However, what I usually see in casinos when someone has a long string of jackpots on a carnival machine is that they "re-invested" all of their jackpots and then kept the last one to take home. Although, unfortunately, sometimes they also "re-invest" the last one and only go home when they are truly penniless.
 
While all of Roveer's comments and advice are excellent, my own advice as someone who has handily defeated this game a few times: If you get really lucky and hit something, take the money and run!

[roveer]

If I am, indeed, the one he was referring to, no hard feelings, and no offense was intended.
 None taken, I think we are all here to share our experiences and sometimes our opinions.  While it's hard to ever know the exact circumstance of ones situation and make any sort of judgement on it, as long as it was all meant in the spirit of knowledge and enlightenment than I'm fine with it.   The information I provided in my response to DaBurgler was all true, 13 hours session, the hits were the hits, and yes, you end up pouring lots of your winnings back in.  I like it when I get as close your your advice as possible, get to an acceptable level of win then run away.  Harder to do when the hand pays are smaller.  Truth be known, when I hit the 6k+ hit, I should have run.  Did I?  Nope...  Playing over long durations is extremely difficult.  Do also understand, that I'm working between 10-12 machines when I'm doing all of this.  I don't believe more than 2 hand pays ever came while sitting at the same machine during the same session.  I move around a lot.

[DaBurglar]

I never said they give false hope, and I whole (HOLE?)heartedly encourage anyone to post whatever pictures they want, I enjoy seeing them like everyone else!   My post and the things I said and asked were sincere in wanting roveers input, and he answered which is cool..... Everything he said confirms my viewpoint up to now, that STP is near-impossible to turn a long term profit, but more likely results in significant losses.   furthermore, playing long long lonnnnnng sessions on STP requires large bankrolls in excess of 5K, even if you stick to 25 cent level machines like I do.... But what surprised me most of all was that this took place in Harrahs AC, I'm shocked at this!  AC has been HELL the past 6-7 months since the end of last summer, at least as far as I am concerned, as well as my family and friends who play in AC.   I have not even posted yet about my latest debacle in AC that took place last week, from February 1 thru the 7th!  More on that later in a different post. Harrahs-AC is one of the few AC casinos that I actually have NOT played too often within, I stick to the boardwalk for 80+ percent of my AC play.  But Harrahs is the place I do play at when I am over in that area, as I almost never play at Golden Nugget, and Borgata I only visit about once a month for an hour or two.  The times I played at harrahs I stick to their 9/6 JOB machines, but the last two times I splurged and played their multi line Quick Quad game, and was promptly busted down to nothing.....multi line games of all variants in AC just kill me! But anyway, thanks for answering roveer, but for your long term bankroll's sake, I do hope you turn back to a more stable, less variable, more modest VP game choice.  

[BillyJoe]

Man, I cannot imagine a 13 hour VP session. Wow.. I would always hit either a Win Stop or a Loss Stop long before that. Now, I may play again later, and I know that many may say that it is the same thing. I guess I am just a true recreational player when I am on a gaming trip.

[ginfre]

I am grateful to be here and see how the best players here discuss things.  I'd like to add a little bit of my research, and I'd like a few comments.  I've only been at this for 18 months.  At the Wizard of Odds, you can calculate the hypothetical dollar return given their calculations.   What I have discovered is that Bonus Poker Deluxe has the best return.  I don't wish to keep this a secret, for, it may not be, and, I may be wrong.  But, it seems to me that it does.   Only one example:  There are over 1.6 Trillion possibilities in standard poker.  There is a slight variance in Royal Flush, Full House, Flush, 3 Kind, 2 Pair, and Pair.  But, I calculated (if I did so correctly) the return on the 4 of a kind plays for a few games.  After doing two, one can eyeball the numbers and see what is what.  Well, here is my result: Bonus Poker Plus:  400 Prize, occurring every 423 hands:  $1.57 Trillion DD Bonus Poker:    Variable 4 of a Kind Prizes, the Total:   $1.33 Trillion There are,  of course, 1.6 Trillion possibilities. I invite conversation.

[davidearl]

You know when they say not to go to the casino depressed. This might be the best pieces of advice you can ever take. Most of my losing sessions, my big losing sessions have come when I am in a negative state of mind. This past trip, I had done a lot of work and shoveled a lot of snow and felt pretty good about taking some time off. The result was much better. I played slower, I was able to get my grove going, I enjoyed myself, and the hand pays started racking up. When I go and I'm anxious, waiting for the handpay, slapping, going super fast etc (you all know what I'm talking about), then the money is gone in a flash. Take this bit of advice and put it to good use.       This speaks volumes. I believe the key to being a successful VP player, is to know your mindset. Casinos thrive on gamblers who have addictive personalities. Smoking and drinking are both addictive, but with completely different results. Nicotine stimulates the feel-good part of the brain, as does exercise, such as shoveling snow!  Alcohol, on the other hand, is a downer, relaxer. So people who have a cigarette in one hand and a drink in the other, are really self medicating.    I define a successful VP player as someone who is able to have consistently positive returns on a yearly basis. Not every year will be positive. Even Bob Dancer or the Wizzard can have a negative return year. I can't remember which one it was, who said he had a negative return in I believe, 2009.     I see huge difference in peoples' behavior in smoking vs. non-smoking casinos, as far as vp goes. Some casinos are ghost towns at 3:00 am, depending on what time they stop pouring the drinks, and whether they are non-smoking or not.      Some suggestions, or points to ponder, for understanding your mindset.     1 Try the hotel exercise room, or go for a walk outside, on a sunny day, before playing vp.     2 People who have addictive personalities play longer that those who don't, usually.     3 Try taking a nap, and then playing, after they stop serving drinks. Remember alcoholis a downer and caffeine is a upper. So coffee and Pepsi, instead.     4 If you get tired, or your eyes get blurry, take a break. Remember both can be symptoms of low blood sugar, and blurry eyes can be warnings of migraine or mini-strokes, so get up and move around.         Dave    

[DrawingDead]

Roveer I love your insight and I feel you have a good grip on the reality of playing VP. It can kick your butt and or pay handsomely. We can go on great runs or long depressing dry spells. I may also scale back on the higher denomination VP machines.