CET offers for 2015

[notes1]

it would not seem unusual for a company in some form of bankruptcy to need to reduce their costs, including comps, free play, etc. i would assume the debt holders would  demand additional expense reductions. there are posters on other forums all commenting about the reduction in their comps/free play.  while many, including myself, have complained about one area of CET or another, there is one huge benefit they brought to gamblers. no other company was as large, had properities in so many locals that we could travel to and our reward credits or status would count.   while Loveman made his mistakes, most notably not getting into the Macau action, the idea of a national chain of casinos, scattered around the country, is not a bad idea. likely bit off too much, too soon, and the economic crisis, did not help. 

[DaBurglar]

it would not seem unusual for a company in some form of bankruptcy to need to reduce their costs, including comps, free play, etc. i would assume the debt holders would  demand additional expense reductions. there are posters on other forums all commenting about the reduction in their comps/free play.  while many, including myself, have complained about one area of CET or another, there is one huge benefit they brought to gamblers. no other company was as large, had properities in so many locals that we could travel to and our reward credits or status would count.   while Loveman made his mistakes, most notably not getting into the Macau action, the idea of a national chain of casinos, scattered around the country, is not a bad idea. likely bit off too much, too soon, and the economic crisis, did not help. I agree with some of what you state here, and having multiple locations across north america is potentially good, but where CET went wrong with this strategy (IF indeed it was a conscious strategy and not simply an afterthought the result of mindless expansion)  was having SO MANY locations, a number of which were in places where they were too remote (like the recently discussed TUNICA location that ultimately went bye bye....I believe, Notes1, that you had several insightful comments on that situation!!!)     CET was not strategic enough in the actual placement of these "nationwide" locations!    Plus, they had too many resorts in places like VEGAS and AC and this served to dilute the effectiveness and profit margin(s) of the various properties within each specific location (i.e.  in AC, they had four properties at the beginning of 2014, but were compelled to shutter Showboat due to shrinking margins at the BIGGER more important AC properties, namely HArrahs, Ballys and CAesars......showboat was actually turning a small but steady profit!!!)Another problem with the WAY Caesars conducted and managed its "nationwide" Total Rewards program was simply, the only REAL beneficiaries of this program, in terms of overall VALUE, were the Higher Level Diamond and (most important), the SEVEN STAR customers.......the lower level diamond players (i.e. those who BARELY qualify for Diamond status each year) and under do not receive nearly enough total, or overall "PERKS" or COMPS to truly make it worthwhile or meaningful to have a Total rewards-based  property in virtually every corner of the country!      Sure, it offers convenience, but unless a player truly has the ability to redeem a LOT of comps & perks at a frequent enough rate (meaning they actually VISIT enough CET properties OFTEN enough during each fiscal year) the benefits of having so many properties is overstated.But I agree 100% that the MAIN reason Loveman was shown the door was his complete and total abdication of the Asian/Macau market, which is what has fueled almost ALL major profit success for the biggest gaming corporations worldwide!    CET would NOT be in bankruptcy IF.....IF they had pursued opening one or two HUGE properties within MAcau's burgeoning market!     Really makes you wonder about the qualifications of Loveman and whoever is doing the hiring and planning at CET!!!    it is NOT Rocket Science, nor even basic earth science (i.e. Rocks and Lizards and bunsen burners!)

[alpax]

Thanks notes1 and DaBurglar for clarifying what led to the demise of CET, compared to last month and now, I am well aware of the situation. Seems like you guys had a lot invested in them based on the letdown expression.

Anyhow, the Queen of Comps "Jean $¢ott" chimed in on the VPFree forums regarding the topic of CET offer cutback. Stated that most of the heavy players have seen their offers cut down to a third of what it used to be (e.g. $5000 free play to $1500). The issue is significant enough for the players to strongly consider boycotting those places. Also indicated that on a future Frugal Vegas blog post, there will be a topic that will focus on the recent VP offers cutback experienced by players across various places not limited to CET.

Not sure if Dancer will find it worthwhile to play 9/5 JoB at CET properties anymore, with the cutbacks, I think it might be too much to overcome despite how great the 7star Signature Event benefits are.

[notes1]

you are more than welcome, alpax. one of the posters on alan mendelson's site took the time to compare the comps at CET and MGM. apparently mgm did not come close.  IMO, the only thing that really matters is how much free play one gets and the pay schedule. getting hotels and food is easy, it does not take any great loyalty. as long as one has a little flexibility in their schedule, there are lots of casino rooms available. keep in mind i have never been nor desire to be 7*, being a low end diamond is expensive enough. as far as a boycott goes, i have no idea how likely that is to happen, but an interesting conversation point.  i am not 'letdown' by CET, i am disapointed in the entire casino situation. i do not blame CET for the actions they are now taking, too much debt, not enough players, too many casinos, they are a business, they are doing whatever to survive.  what we really need is a shakeout in the whole industry, but i do notthink that we happen soon. as long as states need tax revenues, the casinos take all the risk, additional casinos are inevitable.

[alpax]

http://forum.alanbestbuys.com/showthrea ... ight=mlife

The only void I see is that no one on that forum has admitted to reaching (or been invited) NOIR status on MGM mLife. It is understandable since they earn points at their respective local casinos to get into 7* and use them for Vegas, the market for mLife is limited to Tunica/Biloxi/Detroit/Vegas/and soon Springfield. The only person that I seen here who is in 7* and NOIR would be billyjoe; I can recall billyjoe getting special treatment out of NOIR but I do not know in great detail what they provide (for sure a cruise and invites to a special golf tournament just like 7*).

I am not sure where the status for MGM mLife is for the 2015 calendar year, but the cutbacks for Total Rewards is very well documented online. Speaking for myself, last week MGM has increased their offer for the second time ($50 freeplay/$25 mLife Resort Credit -> $125 freeplay/$50 mLife Resort -> $150 freeplay/$75 mLife Resort Credit/Free Ticket to a Cirque Du Soliel show. I played $15k coin in on Jacks or Better back in August 2014 and $1500 coin in on quarter slots. Its the only play session and it was not enough to get into Pearl (needs $25k coin in).

I too do not have a need to get into the higher end of membership. I play on recreational purposes, but I will play Jacks or Better for the minimum $1 denomination to get the 9/6 paytable on the Las Vegas strip. Total Rewards has good $1 JoB up north at Lake Tahoe, but it will be at $5 denomination minimum with a $25 coin in per tier credit, along with a low theoretical.

Despite the casino saturation, it does not seem to be a problem in California where the population is very sense, it generates enough income to the state for them to continue to expand. They could get away with purposely offering no promotions or special offers on a Saturday, and yet it draws much more people than any weekday offer.

[notes1]

alpax, i am interested, are all the casinos in CA indian properties? if so, the tribes may be self regulating themselves, via limiting the number of casinos being built. in many other markets, the states are deciding where and how many casinos are built. and, if the states have no skin (money) in the game, they will continue to allow more casinos than the market can bear.   this overbuilding of casinos, reminds me of the airline industry years ago. they kept ordering more planes, taking on new routes, an effort to get market share. as a result, there were price wars and they lost money. they have learned a lesson, limit the number of seats available (capacity) and they can control the price. now, they are making more money than they can count. i think you are doing the wise, comparing one casino offers against another.

[alpax]

It very much seems like there are two types of casinos in the state, the ones on tribal land won a proposition (1A) back in 2000 to be allowed Vegas style slots and table games in exchange for revenue towards the state. The ones on non tribal land are pretty much card casinos where there is holdem poker as well as table games where you do not play against the house, but a designated banker (someone with money). Each round the banker must pay $2 commission where as the players pay $1 commission. That is around the time Vegas started to go downhill. The Harrah's Southern California was recently named from Harrah's Rincon, but it is on the Rincon tribal land so it is still considered a tribal casino I think.

Later on, long story short, to increase the revenue from indian gaming to cover state's budget issue, then governor Arnold Schwarzenegger proposed Propositions 94-97 for four major state indian casinos to be allowed to an increase number of slots and games in exchange for greater revenue. That one won in a landslide.

Recently, the Indian tribes have proposed against a Proposition 48 (last year) that allows for certain tribes to build gaming on non-tribal lands. That one did not pass for a land slide. It would cannibalize their revenue if people do not need to travel far for the action.

The indian reservations are about 20 to 80 miles away from the heavily populated areas. There are a ton of people with just $40-$60 bankroll who come and play, there is no sign of slowing down on Saturdays based on my observation. The only time it was slow was during the recession in 2008, but now its back to being crowded again. I primarily go on a weekday to take advantage of a promotion.

I know exactly what you are talking about in terms of what leads to a business crashing, the population density in CA I think can handle more casinos, but only the indian ones are allowed to have it (not sure which indian tribe that does not have it, I'll look it up).

[notes1]

the other thing that the tribes are going to consider before overbuilding, is how close CA is to nevada.

[alpax]

The Indian casinos believe what is stopping them from overtaking vegas is the alcohol laws that prevent them from comping alcohol free of charge. Also they lack top tier entertainment performers as well as authentic craps and roulette.

Speaking of distance, those indian casinos market themselves as "just an hour away from all the action", or "just 80 miles from Los Angeles". "No need to go 4-5 hours each way".

[OTABILL]

alpax, i am interested, are all the casinos in CA indian properties? if so, the tribes may be self regulating themselves, via limiting the number of casinos being built. in many other markets, the states are deciding where and how many casinos are built. and, if the states have no skin (money) in the game, they will continue to allow more casinos than the market can bear.   this overbuilding of casinos, reminds me of the airline industry years ago. they kept ordering more planes, taking on new routes, an effort to get market share. as a result, there were price wars and they lost money. they have learned a lesson, limit the number of seats available (capacity) and they can control the price. now, they are making more money than they can count. i think you are doing the wise, comparing one casino offers against another.

Arizona's compact with the tribes located in thge state limits the number of slot machines in the state and per casino, thus putting a ceiling on overbuilding. The number of table games statewide is also limited.
Tribal-State Compacts - Arizona