differnce between a VP pro and other pros

[notes1]

Will those pre-2007 days ever come back??? I heard many good stories of those days.
 i sure hope so. might make an interesting tread on what it would take. what i can tell you is i got comps at a multiple of what i get now. even as a low level player, it was normal to get an extra $50-100 in comps on top of what i earned at times. back then, i never even checked the paytables. i still lost, but it was very reasonable. one could play a lot longer with a smaller bankroll. i do not blame the casinos, they need to survive and they have likely cut costs all they can. the properties are too big, high fixed costs, weak economy and too many casinos. 

[case]

You guys are wrongPeople can and do make a living playing VP. I will agree there are not many and things are not as good as they were years ago. However....Pros play "almost" exclusively out of Vegas. There are still games that pay 100% or really close to it. And like Dancer, comps, draws, cashback and other perks go into their bank.These pros play perfect or near perfect poker. If games are fair then 100% payback will pay just that.  Yes they go on long losing spells but over time things even out. I believe that is where most "non believers" go wrong in they don't understand long term. People who play for a living play long term and averages do work out. People who come for a vacation for a few days never achieve long term results. Yes they might win but most don't know or understand  perfect play. Anything can happen in the short term, but expected results are the norm in the long term.To expect Dancer to "prove" his results is ridiculous. No one is going to show their tax forms on an open forum to a bunch of strangers. Also...Dancers tax form could show a loss some years and often maybe do....however again lets not forget those comps and "hidden" perks.Again with such small edges a pro has to play high stakes  and to make a living they all do. Also once in awhile they come across a hidden gem often at an out of the way casino and milk the play for what they can get out of it. These plays contribute large to the bottom line.In summary:100% or near 100% machines, comps, draws, cashback, long term and perfect play = a winner.Poster Misterlister......you sound a lot like Fa la la la la... la la la... la.. Going out of your way to attack Dancer at every chance. Give it a rest

[notes1]

case, pretend you own a casino. you want customers, without them your business will fail. your casino advertises the 'dream', anybody could be a winner. in other words, it is in the casino owners best interest to encourage the dream, to let folks believe anyone can win.  with that said, why would steve wynn go on 60 minutes and declare he knew of no one who was a long term player of casino games, who was a net winner. and, he said that a couple of years ago, when vegas was in it's heyday and the machines/comps had not been downgraded. i am confident that casino owners talk to one another, if one knew of long term winners, they would all know it.  i just cannot think of a single reason why a casino owner would want to dispel the idea that one can beat the casino, it would be good for their business. why would you go on national tv and burst the dream. on the other hand, i can think of many reasons why someone who advertises themselves as the 'greatest flipper of real estate' or the 'best stock investor' or any other profession might want others to believe they are more succesful, than they really are.

[ko king]

case, pretend you own a casino. you want customers, without them your business will fail. your casino advertises the 'dream', anybody could be a winner. in other words, it is in the casino owners best interest to encourage the dream, to let folks believe anyone can win. 
 
with that said, why would steve wynn go on 60 minutes and declare he knew of no one who was a long term player of casino games, who was a net winner. and, he said that a couple of years ago, when vegas was in it's heyday and the machines/comps had not been downgraded. i am confident that casino owners talk to one another, if one knew of long term winners, they would all know it. 
 
i just cannot think of a single reason why a casino owner would want to dispel the idea that one can beat the casino, it would be good for their business. why would you go on national tv and burst the dream.
 
on the other hand, i can think of many reasons why someone who advertises themselves as the 'greatest flipper of real estate' or the 'best stock investor' or any other profession might want others to believe they are more succesful, than they really are.

                                                                                                                                                                           
 
I remember that but I think I watched it on Youtube. I also remember a guy I know that never gambled, his wife did, she played $5 denomination vp at max all the time. He used to brag and show us pictures of all her big wins, claimed she made big bucks playing the game. I'm not sure if she's still in jail or not but she worked at a bank and evidently she thought it was okay to use the banks money to finance her gambling habit. At this point I'm almost desperate enough to try anything and if Bob Dancer guarentees me he can improve my play I might just take the chance.
 
I'll even go a little further, Mr. Dancer if you happen to read this post I'll take you up on what you're selling and give an honest assesstment of your product.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko king]At this point I'm almost desperate enough to try anything and if Bob
Dancer guarentees me he can improve my play I might just take the
chance.[/quote]OK.  Play less per hand, play slower and stop thinking so much.  No charge....    

[case]

Notes 1:Mr Wynn can only speak about his own casino and not every other casinos.  Pros do not make a living off of Wynn casinos as he has reduced his odds like most strip casinos. I don't think all casino owners get together and discuss who wins and who losses at their casino.Why do you think 100% VP can't be beat?

[Carcounter]

Things are definitely different now than they were pre 2007. I have been playing VP since I first saw it on a trip to Las Vegas in 1993. It's funny because I live an hour from AC on the Jersey Shore, but never went to AC before then. I used to go to LV on a regular basis, but not anymore. I can tell you that pre 2007 there were positive machines in AC (and great cashback/promos) and I saw pros on a regular basis. They were nice enough to share some info with me, a recreational 3-4 hour a week player.As far as I can tell those positive plays in AC are gone, save for some small progressive plays like the Caesars .25 Double Joker progressives and the 5 Joker progressives at the Trop. As I said before, I still see some of the pros that were making real money pre 2007 chasing small, small edges in today's AC. They have not aged well and I don't understand why they have dedicated their life to this pursuit. They are smart, talented people who could earn more in another field. But yes, good plays existing before 2007, even in AC. I had some good years and those wins still have me ahead overall, even though it has been slightly negative since then. Anyone on this board remember the $1.00 All Americans and the $1.00 99.97 Double Joker triple plays with good cashback and occasional 3x and 5x cashback?

[BobDancer]

[At this point I'm almost desperate enough to try anything and if Bob Dancer guarentees me he can improve my play I might just take the chance.
 
I'll even go a little further, Mr. Dancer if you happen to read this post I'll take you up on what you're selling and give an honest assesstment of your product.All of my products are available at bobdancer.com. They are also for sale at a small discount in my classes, which will be on Wednesdays beginning September 16.Your results will definitely improve if you use proper strategy and understand the game better. You will also have losing trips. If you want a guarantee, I can guarantee your scores will fluctuate.If you are a "good student," and actually apply what's in the Winner's Guides, yes your results will improve. If you buy them and put them on a shelf somewhere unopened, they won't help you at all.If you can come to a class or two, by the end of the class you'll know whether you can learn from my style of teaching. It does require a certain aptitude and intelligence. For whatever reason, some people don't seem to be able to get the hang of following a video poker strategy. Or they simply don't want to use the discipline required.So how much you will improve depends on how much you know now and how much you're willing to be trained. Some people simply hang on to their old ideas (like "never draw to an inside straight" or "go for the royal whenever possible" or "from KK332, just hold the kings." All of these ideas are wrong some of the time. If you follow a good strategy, except you override it with your preconceptions, the strategy won't do you much good.If you want me to swear the products have considerable value, I can do that. There have been a number of testimonials from people on this site to that effect (along with many haters I seem to attract here as well). I can't possibly guarantee that every person, regardless of their intelligence, study habits, discipline, and motivation will succeed when using my products.And I also can't guarantee you'll win if you use my strategies on 97% games. Playing good games is part of the strategy. If you insist on playing the bad games, you're very likely going to lose.

[notes1]

i am more inclined, on any subject, to take the word of someone who states something that is against their own interest than the word of someone who states something in their own interest. that is my nature, i rarely believe anything without proof.   and, i will steal a comment from another poster, why would a casino owner allow someone to make regular wihdrawals from their casino? they can ban anyone they want. card counters have been banned from from casinos forever and it has not hurt business.    casinos are largely run by giant corporations. their interest is the bottom line, shareholders demand it, or those who run these operations will lose their job.   i/m/o, to learn how to play the games properly and to take advantage of advantage situations, does not require a mensa type. one can learn it on their own or from others. the real genius, the real skill is to build a reputation and keep it, where others feel you have something special to offer. and, those folks are willingly to pay for some of that knowledge. to build/keep a image, to be able to market that image, to make money off that image is a rare quality indeed.      

[Vman96]

i am more inclined, on any subject, to take the word of someone who states something that is against their own interest than the word of someone who states something in their own interest. that is my nature, i rarely believe anything without proof.   and, i will steal a comment from another poster, why would a casino owner allow someone to make regular wihdrawals from their casino? they can ban anyone they want. card counters have been banned from from casinos forever and it has not hurt business.    casinos are largely run by giant corporations. their interest is the bottom line, shareholders demand it, or those who run these operations will lose their job.   i/m/o, to learn how to play the games properly and to take advantage of advantage situations, does not require a mensa type. one can learn it on their own or from others. the real genius, the real skill is to build a reputation and keep it, where others feel you have something special to offer. and, those folks are willingly to pay for some of that knowledge. to build/keep a image, to be able to market that image, to make money off that image is a rare quality indeed.      

One key to most advantage players is to "stay under the radar". Exact numbers I'm just throwing out here, so don't take this to be the typical case There are thousands in each casino's player database, but there may only be a dozen players that actually cost the casino money. Spending too much effort to eradicate ALL of these players may cost the casino even MORE money.

Now Bob is less under the radar, but it's still dependent on a slot manager to look over the records and know Bob's real name and say..."hey, that guy never plays a game we can win at!"