The Hardest Part of VP

[billryan]

Can you give me an example? I play some penny and nickel machines that let you bet up to 100 credits, but to get the 800 RF, you must bet 100, otherwise you get a much smaller amount.
Are you talking about the All Star Machines, for example? I know you can bet 1-30 coins per hand, but was under the impression you needed 30 to get the RF bang.
I'm afraid your explanation left me more confused.
Thanks.

[paco13]

IIRC the last time I played @ Mohegun Sun (where Olds plays) their machines went up to bet 20 on single line. They also had a double up feature on every winning hand. As was stated bet 5 and above you got the full pay out for the royal, no penalty.

[asteroid]

Sure. There is an IGT machine with several different games on it, like deuces and jokers, deuces wild, ddb and some others. you can bet pennies and nickels up to 100 coins. When you bet five coins you will receive 4000 coins. They are at Tamarack Junction in Reno. These are not All Star machines. I believe this option is tech settable. Can you give me an example? I play some penny and nickel machines that let you bet up to 100 credits, but to get the 800 RF, you must bet 100, otherwise you get a much smaller amount.
Are you talking about the All Star Machines, for example? I know you can bet 1-30 coins per hand, but was under the impression you needed 30 to get the RF bang.
I'm afraid your explanation left me more confused.
Thanks.

[olds442jetaway]

Exactly right Asteroid. In my case, the machines I play allow bets of up to 25 quarters and the correct Royal payout starts at bet 5. Within the same machines, there are also options to change denomination to fifty cents or dollars allowing bets all the way up to twenty five bucks a hand. If you have a huge bankroll and lots of time, you could go all the way up until you hit, but I wouldn't recommend it in the short run. Been there and done that. Yes every few thousand hands or so I try upping the bet and if I stick to it, it works out very well. The problem is you get antsy and say let me up my bets too early and the quad deuces may never appear that session. I try and wait about 4,000 hands before I up my bet, but don't always wait that long. Just as an aside, if one wants to settle for a poorer paytable, Mohegan has some machines that pay the correct 800 for 1 even on nickel machines. It is only available on the spin poker option, but one could always play just the center line. The paytables on those machines though are in the 96-97 percent range though. I would rather play the 98.91 machines for quarter airport deuces. Playing this way, I should hit quad deuces about 8 times for just 1 royal hit paying me double in other words, 200 for 1 x 8 = 1600    1 royal 800 for 1. all in the roughly 40,000 hands.

[billryan]

What are these machines called? I'd like to find some.
So, if betting quarters, instead of being capped at $1.25 you can play for $1.75 and get the proper payout on all winners, including a RF? I mostly play a penny machine for 100 credits, because it has better games than the 25 cent machines. (NSUD vs BP) I find myself playing 100 credits at 2 cents but wont mind playing JOB for $1.75-$2 a hand.

Are the double up features 50-50 or is there a house edge. I did really well a few times in AC on slots doing that but have not noticed them in Vegas, although I don't play the exotic games. No clue how to play Spin Poker, and the many variants of Double Bonus Plus Plus or whatever.
Haven't spent ten minutes on the Double Bonus machine I bought. Its just a decoration for now.

[paco13]

You know, i'm not sure of the odds on the double up feature. Does anyone know are the cards drawn for the feature from a new deck of 57 or are they drawn from what is left from the deck you were dealt and drew from during the regular initial game?

[FloridaPhil]

What I was referring to is the fact that playing single coin quarters costs less money to play than max coin quarters on a negative VP game. This is easy to understand if you look at the math.  Note: We don't have nickel VP in Florida.  Playing 500 hands an hour at $1.25 consumes $625.00 per hour.Playing 500 hands an hour at .25 cents a hand consumes $125.00 per hour.Playing a 97% quarter game with max coins costs 3% of $625.00 or $18.75/Hr. if you hit the royals on schedule. More if you don't.Playing a 96% quarter game (no royal bonus) with single coin costs you 4% of $125.00 or $5.00/Hr.Bob Dancer plays and teaches playing positive games.  If you are playing negative games, the math says you will lose long term no matter what your strategy and the more you bet the more you will lose.   Bob has stated on this forum single coin play costs less to play than max coins when playing negative games.   I tried it and he is right as usual.I did this for two years and made a small profit due to a few lucky potshots which I kept.  My single coin play wasn't positive, my pot shots were.  Is this a viable option for most payers? Heck No!   Most players want to win jackpots, not crawl along playing for nothing.  If that was the case no one would ever go to the casino, they would stay on this website.  In addition, a strategy based on pure luck is not a strategy, it's just flipping a coin.

[olds442jetaway]

I don't play the double up feature, but I believe you are playing even up with the house and the cards are dealt from a new deck using the rng. I never had any luck at all playing double up. It would be easy to figure out spin poker by playing on this site for practice. The center deal line governs pretty much everything. You make a decision on the cards dealt on the center line, hold what you want and those cards are then held on all lines. When you hit draw, the rng deals to each line separately. For example, You are dealt 3 to a Royal in clubs on the center line. You are playing 3 lines total. You hold your 3 clubs. Those are also held auto on the other 2 lines. When you hit draw, the rng gives you cards separately on all 3 lines. You might get a royal on the top line, nothing on the center line and a straight on the bottom line or any number of other possibilities. You make out the best on spin poker when you are dealt something good on the center line. For example, you are dealt a full house. naturally you hold it. If you are playing say 9 lines, you now hit a full house on all 9 lines. The game does run hot and cold like anything else, but you also have the option to just play one line the center line.

[FloridaPhil]

Bob says never double up, so I don't.  My previous post ignores comps.  Comps have value and in fact can turn a negative game positive.  I think everyone here knows that.  What they may not know is playing single coin quarters is guaranteed to kill your comps and offers.  That alone was enough to keep me from doing it. 

[olds442jetaway]

There is one downside to playing 6 or more coins on a quarter machine. Hitting a Royal on with 6 coins bet triggers a W-2G because the payout is 1200 bucks. Hitting for 5 coins for a grand doesn't. in my state Ct, I get screwed big time because the state of Ct is right there to take 5 or 6 percent from you depending on your bracket on the gross hit of 1200 or more. Even if you itemize your deductions like I will this year and offset the gross wins with losses so there will be hardly any federal tax consequences, the state is right there to rake right off the top from all of your W-2Gs on your gross winnings. I say hardly any federal consequences because there are other minor things. A large amount of W-2Gs will boost your Federal AGI. That could affect your deductions and subject you to a partial offset of loss on some of them. There are calculation tables and schedules for all of this and it can be a royal pain. That is why many vp players never bet more than 5 quarters. you also have to be careful playing Joker Kings if the royal pays 940 for 5 quarters bet. That will trigger a W-2G as well. The bottom line unfortunately is all gambling winnings are taxableW-2G or not. It is just easier to offset the gross wins with losses in some states than others. In my state they cannot be offset at all for state income tax purposes.