How To Keep The Casino From Beating You

[Tedlark]

Phil you didn't answer my question: "Are you claiming that casino comps are not advantage plays?"

You did however, say that some casino offers have value to you.

I occasionally get decent offers that I will take them up on. Recently a casino sent me something for a George Foreman grill, no play is required. This to me is an advantage play because the cost of the grill is worth more than the gas I use driving to and from the casino.

[FloridaPhil]

By my definition, a comp can only be considered an advantage play if it pushes the odds over 100%. I personally have never seen any comp that can do that. If I did, I would play that game as long as I didn't have to suffer through thousands of dollars in downturns.

[FloridaPhil]

Negative Play Comps and Incentives

When I first started playing VP some ten or so years ago, comps were the last thing I thought about. At that time, the hassle of carrying around a Player's Club card seemed overbearing. Even when I played with a card, the rewards were nominal. Sure I got a few bucks free play, but my points could only be used to buy sunglasses and Tee shirts.

One day I received a mailer telling me if I played on a certain day I would earn three times points. This offer sounded worthwhile. Perhaps I could earn enough free points to actually buy something valuable, like food? I went to the casino, inserted my card and found my points accumulating at the normal rate. I walked over to the Player's Club and showed them the mailer. Why wasn't I earning 3X points I asked? The Player's Club lady went into the back and returned with my answer. The manager says video poker is not eligible for multiple points. I told her the mailer didn't state that. She left again and told me the casino makes the rules and that's what they are. The next mailer had the video poker exclusion printed in tiny letters at the bottom. So much for gaining an advantage.

Much later I received another mailer with an offer of bonus free play, or so I thought. When I got to the casino there was no extra free play. Again, I went to the Player's Club for an explanation. This time I was lucky enough to get a manager that knew what he was doing.

The manager sat me down and showed me the casino's website. He showed me how to tell the difference between mailer offers. He also showed me a calendar indicating all my offers in a way I could understand. He noted my playing record and said I was an Elite Player and as such was entitled to things I didn't know existed. The lesson I learned was "If you don't know what's being offered, you can't take advantage of them".

Always play with a player's club card. If you don't have one, get one. Here's why. Most casinos are part of a group of casinos. If you go to the Borgata in AC for example, they are an MGM casino. If you play there you will get offers from other MGM casinos. Recently my wife and I stayed free at the AC Borgata. These rooms were comped because we play often at the Beau Rivage in Biloxi. Every now and then we play at Red Rock in Las Vegas. We are both quarter players, but both of us run a lot of quarters through the machines. It's hot in Vegas right now and their hotel needs customers. My desk is full of offers from the Red Rock. We get offers from Caesar's as well. If we didn't get a player's club card, we would never see any.

Don't think just because you are a quarter player, you won't get anything valuable. Free hotel night stays are easy to get. They know you aren't going to the casino to lay out by the pool, you are going to gamble. Believe me, the casino is not going to be worried about you beating their VP. If you start playing $100 a coin and hit them for more than your share of jackpots, you will find yourself banned. They will smile as they kindly walk you to the door. This is not something a quarter player should worry about, but it is comforting to know. No one beats the casino long term unless the casino has a good reason for allowing them to do so.

We love taking VP road trips. We plan our trips so we can stay at casino resorts as many nights as possible. Most of these nights are comped. The Ameristar in Black Hawk Colorado is an excellent example of how we use comps to our advantage. They offer us two free rooms a week. My wife and I have separate accounts. This means we can get four nights a week free, two on my account and two on hers. If we go somewhere else for a few days like we did two years ago, we can get four more nights free the following week. This casino is one of our favorites. It's not the odds that make it great, it's the location. You will not find a more beautiful place for a casino in this country. This casino is outside Golden Colorado high in the Rockies. The entire State is non-smoking and they know how to treat their customers.

Comp point programs vary widely. The Florida Hard Rock casino point program is generous, but the points expire quickly. This benefits local regulars more than tourists. When we drive down to the Hollywood casino, we never pay for rooms or food. Granted we eat in the coffee shop, but the food is good and it's free. We don't use our points to buy merchandise because they charge double points in their shops.

The Hard Rock Casinos hold numerous drawings. The higher your tier, the more invitations you receive. I have not been lucky enough to win anything, but I have seen people win cars and thousands of dollar in free play. If I lived closer to the casino, I'm sure my chances would improve. Comps are a big part of your return. I am pretty sure they won't turn a 97% quarter game positive. However, if you don't take advantage of them you are giving them away.

Whenever you go to a new casino, get a card before you put money in the machine. Make sure your email address is correct. Open all the offers and see if any interest you. It's always amazing to me the offers we get as quarter players. We both play VP exclusively. We always play the best game we can find and we are accurate. Quarter players are paying the casino's bills and that fine with us as long as we believe we are getting our money's worth.

[FAA]

You both play forever. I can last an hour on quarter JOB before boredom pummels me!

[stevel96a1]

Phil you maybe on to something, i always been told always gamble with the casino's money and never yours, i guess flat betting is best method right now, for me in order to hit a jackpot a decent chance needs a decent number hands followed by a decent amount of money to play those hands to find that 1 out of a thousand premium hand. looking back my starting video poker if i had used a parlay system my 3 early royals would have netted me alot more then flat betting, but i didn't know the future and still don't yet im always attracted to play 5$ a hand 9/6 and get that royal like everyone else.

i'll say this switching from from 9/6 jacks to DDBAF has positive results when one fails me given between 1-2k credit switching to other has shown positive results

[FloridaPhil]

Phil you maybe on to something, i always been told always gamble with the casino's money and never yours.

Some players will tell you all money is your money and there is no such thing as the casino's money. They have a point, but I don't see it that way.

What we are talking about is commonly called a "Pot Shot". This is the Recreational Forum. Many players find pot shots entertaining and make it part of a day's play. It's important to understand that if you do this too much, it is no longer a pot shot, it's playing above your bankroll. If you continue to do this you will lose much more than you want to. If you persist, you will be talking to a lawyer.

What you need is a low variance low cost game that you play within your bankroll 99% of the time. Max coin quarter Bonus Poker is that game for me. When you take your pots shots and they don't work, which is most of the time, go back to your base game immediately.

I think controlled pot shots are part of the fun of Recreational Video Poker. They are not for people who have discipline problems. I limit my pot shots to no more than $20 at a time. What I want out of a pot shot is a reasonable chance of a big pay day. A royal flush is much too rare for a pot shot. If it happens, great. Chances are it won't.

I take all my pot shots with deuces wild. There are many reasons for this. In deuces wild around 40% of all hands pay something. When I take a single coin $5 pot shot with one $20 bill, I have a decent chance of cashing a ticket big enough to walk away with. A $1,000 quad deuce is totally possible. They are 9 times more common than royals and there is no W2G. I have hit many of these. The max coin jackpots are wonderful. A max coin $5 quad deuce pays $5,000. This money will make you a winner for a long time if you don't go crazy and give it back.

When I take $5 CS pot shots, I cash out every win over $100 and put it in my wallet. This helps to offset losses between the max coin jackpots. I can not emphasis enough the harm you will do to yourself if you start thinking a video poker machine is your private ATM. This is easy to do when you are on a winning streak. I have had some incredible runs. They always come to an end. If you don't take evasive action, they will wipe you out.

Playing above your bankroll is no joke. That's why I take my pot shots $20 at a time with house money. I don't care where it comes from as long as it's not directly from my wallet.

[Jstark]

Some players will tell you all money is your money and there is no such thing as the casino's money. They have a point, but I don't see it that way.

Once its in your possession, whether in the form of chips, credits, etc., of course it's YOUR money and not the casinos. Same goes when the casinos wins it from you. It's now THEIRS. Any thinking otherwise is just plain stupid!

[Tedlark]

I agree. Phil, what you wrote and what stevel96a1 nods to, is just plain erroneous thinking. If you hit a handpay, because its the "casino's money", is the casino going to pay any taxes on it because its the "casino's money?"

Once you've won money in a casino it is YOUR money and you are free to do with it what you wish. If it is the "casino's money" and you leave with it, do you need to get the casino's approval to buy a tv with the money?

Wow.

[FloridaPhil]

I agree. Phil, what you wrote and what stevel96a1 nods to, is just plain erroneous thinking.

I see your point. If you believe everything that happens in video poker is determined by a math formula, this doesn't compute. You will rightfully say "Money in is Money out" and that's all there is to it.

People are not computers. I manage my money to meet two goals, to play VP as long as possible and go home with at least what I came in with. If you don't have some way to pace your pot shots, the tendency is to go "hog wild" and bet the ranch in ten minutes. This is exactly what the casinos want me to do.

The plan I described for Steve will not hurt him unless he decides to go for "broke". If he does, I can almost guarantee he will get his wish. $20 an hour is not going to put Steve in bankruptcy. Playing max coin $5 games without an adequate bankroll may.

You guys are misinterpreting the meaning of my posts. I have no axe to grind against any strategy or person. My casino experience and goals are not the same as a "Bob Dancer". I play for entertainment, not profit. Most of the games I play are severely negative. My comps will never make these games long term winners. Because of this I must have some other way to control my losses because I can't count on math to keep me profitable. I think a person of average intelligence should be able to understand this. I know "Bob Dancer" does.

[Tedlark]

But the casinos ALSO want you to think that you "are playing with their money" and thinking (much less, PLAYING this way) is just bad for the player. Thinking this way may more often than not; drive a player to go for "broke." Casinos don't want people to even think that they are playing with money at all when they step foot into a casino and those who loose sight of this fact will go down a rabbit hole.

STOP bringing up Bob Dancer and you really should back off giving advice here in these forums. If someone here follows whatever plan you spelled out here and loses, are you going to cover their losses?

Quick edited to add: I'm not really misinterpreting your posts at all and I'm not alone in that club.