What is the liklihood of Casino cheating at VP?

[olds442jetaway]

Good going. Glad there are some left to get out there. Keep them coming. The last time I drove any distance in snow like that was in the mid 70s in my 66 Caddy calais. Cars were stuck or abandoned all over the road. Very few front wheel or all wheel drive vehicles on the road back then. The Caddy plowed through everything like a tank. Glad you got home safe too.

[Tedlark]

  I recently got a new 2014 Honda CR-V ELX with AWD. It's my first all wheel drive but I've owned 6 4 wheel drive suv's before. The Honda had on demand all wheel drive but normally its front wheel drive so I need to get used to having the computer decide when to go into all wheel drive instead of me deciding when. Up here in the Chicago area you can always tell the rookie suv drivers because they are the ones flying by you and they end up in a ditch or they go off a ramp because they don't know until its too late that getting going in 4 wheel drive is easy but stopping could pose a bit tricky.
 
  I used to go down the snow packed streets in my '69 caddy sideways, it was rear wheel drive and loads of fun. But I was much younger and more foolish to boot.

[chucknorris5]

300,000 hands with no Royal? Wow! Hope you luck changes quickly. I don't keep track of how many hands I play but I've had 3 in the last 6 months. However, it is troubling to read what the slot techs are saying about machines being changed while play is taking place.

[ko king]

I don't quite understand what the point would be when it comes to changing slots, I thought casinos could set slots to payback a certain percentage in the first place. If a slots set to pay back 83% or 90% what does a casino care if one player gets on a streak, the casino is still gonna get whatever percentage the machines set to. The only advantage I could see is it may be easier for a casino to change the payback percentage or if you really want to get nasty about it they could use the players playing habits to their advantage, I mean when I stick my players card in the machine it identifies me right off the bat. Ya know the more I think about it I guess there could be something to it, I've heard of casinos switching dealers or doing different things on table games when a player get on a roll so who knows.

[BillyJoe]

I don't quite understand what the point would be when it comes to changing slots, I thought casinos could set slots to payback a certain percentage in the first place. If a slots set to pay back 83% or 90% what does a casino care if one player gets on a streak, the casino is still gonna get whatever percentage the machines set to. The only advantage I could see is it may be easier for a casino to change the payback percentage or if you really want to get nasty about it they could use the players playing habits to their advantage, I mean when I stick my players card in the machine it identifies me right off the bat. Ya know the more I think about it I guess there could be something to it, I've heard of casinos switching dealers or doing different things on table games when a player get on a roll so who knows.
Maybe the tech was referring to the ability to change slot games, which may contain different payback percentages, within the same machine. This is common now with server-based machines.

[olds442jetaway]

He said they have that ability too, but what he was referring to was actually changing the long term payback percentages say from 90% to 88% for the same game. He doesn't know if it applies to vp too. He didn't think they could do it in the middle of a game, but wasn't sure if they have to wait until the player pulls his card out and re inserts it or if they have to wait for another player to sit down. Again, this is only what I heard. I have no way of knowing if it is correct. I read some more about it in the Las Vegas Advisor. Nobody is saying if it applies to vp too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does since when payback percentages to the patrons are published, solts and vp are lumped together at least in Ct. they are. The average for quarter games is around 92%. As long as they are falling within the percentages set by state guidelines which they are, I don't think you can call it actual cheating. However, if they are not operating by a completely random rng program for all hands on vp, that will be a huge disappointment for all of us. I hope we can get to the bottom of this before too long.

[olds442jetaway]

Check out the Las Vegas Advisor question of the day April 9th I think 2009 regarding the American Coin case. Unbeliveable. Of course this happened some time ago, but worth a read nevertheless.

[ko king]

[QUOTE=ko king]I don't quite understand what the point would be when it comes to changing slots, I thought casinos could set slots to payback a certain percentage in the first place. If a slots set to pay back 83% or 90% what does a casino care if one player gets on a streak, the casino is still gonna get whatever percentage the machines set to. The only advantage I could see is it may be easier for a casino to change the payback percentage or if you really want to get nasty about it they could use the players playing habits to their advantage, I mean when I stick my players card in the machine it identifies me right off the bat. Ya know the more I think about it I guess there could be something to it, I've heard of casinos switching dealers or doing different things on table games when a player get on a roll so who knows.
Maybe the tech was referring to the ability to change slot games, which may contain different payback percentages, within the same machine. This is common now with server-based machines. [/QUOTE]
I don't know very much at all about slots other than you put money in the things and pull the handle or push the button. That's pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking even though I don't really know what it takes to change the actual payback percentage of a slot. It makes sense if all the slots were tied to a central server as it would be much easier for the casino to change the percentage say from 89% to maybe 99.99% from the comfort of one seat.

[ko king]

He said they have that ability too, but what he was referring to was actually changing the long term payback percentages say from 90% to 88% for the same game. He doesn't know if it applies to vp too. He didn't think they could do it in the middle of a game, but wasn't sure if they have to wait until the player pulls his card out and re inserts it or if they have to wait for another player to sit down. Again, this is only what I heard. I have no way of knowing if it is correct. I read some more about it in the Las Vegas Advisor. Nobody is saying if it applies to vp too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does since when payback percentages to the patrons are published, solts and vp are lumped together at least in Ct. they are. The average for quarter games is around 92%. As long as they are falling within the percentages set by state guidelines which they are, I don't think you can call it actual cheating. However, if they are not operating by a completely random rng program for all hands on vp, that will be a huge disappointment for all of us. I hope we can get to the bottom of this before too long.
To me "random" is a pretty tricky word when it comes to anything man made or ran. How can anyone acually create random, seems like the fact that someone or something has to play a part in the event it kinda flies in the face of something being completely random. I guess you could create a series of possible events and gauge how someone deals with the setup situation and compare that to random but that's about as close as anyone could get. I think as far as the regulations for gaming goes the appearence or likeness of randomness is acceptable. I think the gaming industry has a pretty good idea by now as to how the majority of vp players will act when presented with a man-made random deal of cards and know how to use that information in a way to benefit them and still remain in the good graces of those that are there to regulate the industry. I think it's kind of crazy to not understand who the smart guys in the room are.

[spxChrome]

[QUOTE=olds442jetaway]He said they have that ability too, but what he was referring to was actually changing the long term payback percentages say from 90% to 88% for the same game. He doesn't know if it applies to vp too. He didn't think they could do it in the middle of a game, but wasn't sure if they have to wait until the player pulls his card out and re inserts it or if they have to wait for another player to sit down. Again, this is only what I heard. I have no way of knowing if it is correct. I read some more about it in the Las Vegas Advisor. Nobody is saying if it applies to vp too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does since when payback percentages to the patrons are published, solts and vp are lumped together at least in Ct. they are. The average for quarter games is around 92%. As long as they are falling within the percentages set by state guidelines which they are, I don't think you can call it actual cheating. However, if they are not operating by a completely random rng program for all hands on vp, that will be a huge disappointment for all of us. I hope we can get to the bottom of this before too long.
To me "random" is a pretty tricky word when it comes to anything man made or ran. How can anyone acually create random, seems like the fact that someone or something has to play a part in the event it kinda flies in the face of something being completely random. I guess you could create a series of possible events and gauge how someone deals with the setup situation and compare that to random but that's about as close as anyone could get. I think as far as the regulations for gaming goes the appearence or likeness of randomness is acceptable. I think the gaming industry has a pretty good idea by now as to how the majority of vp players will act when presented with a man-made random deal of cards and know how to use that information in a way to benefit them and still remain in the good graces of those that are there to regulate the industry. I think it's kind of crazy to not understand who the smart guys in the room are.[/QUOTE]

Yea I still don't get how something that is random can guarantee a certain % outcome. I do know this though over the years there are always some machines that play better than others for whatever reason. And these machines always end up in the warehouse. This has happened on several occasions at my local casino. I ask where is the machine that sat in this hole right here. They say we put it in the warehouse I ask why they just shrug their shoulders. Anything that is on the positive side of the randomness disappears