Is Video Poker a Game of Skill or Luck

[alpax]

I don't recall anybody here saying that players are wrong to play single coin --- certainly I never said that. What i said was that CS strategy (where you deviate from one-coin strategy at "magic moments") was a crock.

I believe FP was clear on when he makes a higher bet, that is when he gets a payout of 4 for 1 or better (Full House or 4 of a Kind on Deuces Wild). At the same time there is no guarantee, as a losing outcome or an outcome that is not followed by a Straight or better would mean he lost the winnings of the previous hand.

It is what some recreational players do at the table games, they would double up on wins on blackjack a few times or increase their bet amounts if they are on a winning streak on a carnival game in efforts to achieve a big positive Today's Score.

The downside of this approach is that it heavily relies on winning streaks to reap the benefits. We all already know how irrelevant Today's Score is if the person will gamble again in the future, it only affects one's mood for the time being.

[FloridaPhil]

CS is a negative expectation video poker tool, not a universal strategy.[quote=Bob Dancer]What i said was that CS strategy (where you deviate from one-coin strategy at "magic moments") was a crock[/quote][quote=alpax]The downside of this approach is that it heavily relies on winning streaks to reap the benefits.[/quote]Math says playing single coin on a negative expectation video poker game is better financially than max coins because you lose less.  Most non professionals play video poker to be entertained.  Even though playing single coin on a negative video poker machine is a financially better choice, it won't hold your interest for long.   What good is a financially better strategy if players won't use it?  Moving to max coins after a four coin win adds the possibility of a max coin jackpot back into the game. It has nothing to do with streaks or "magic moments", it's just a convenient way to play.  This allows you the best of both "entertainment" worlds, saving money while preserving the possibility of a max coin jackpot.  No one ever said playing CS was better than playing max coins on an overall positive game.There is absolutely "NO" correlation between hitting a 4 coin win and a jackpot on the following hand.  Using CS you are playing max coins approximately 10% of the time depending upon the game.  This is like having a random bonus jackpot similar to STP.  CS came about in answer to our casinos reducing their VP odds.   Most of our play is outside of Nevada where there is no such thing as a positive video poker game unless you are willing to risk more money gambling than we are comfortable with. I don't expect a professional to understand this thinking, but I believe most forum members do.If you think about it that way, CS is a negative expectation game "advantage" strategy.  When playing CS the drinks are still free, the casino still looks the same, the music is just as good, but you are paying less to play than those playing max coins.  In addition, you may be actually having more fun and "possibly" going home with more money.  If others want to pay $50 to $100 and hour or more to see a max coin jackpot, that's fine.  We don't think the experience is that valuable.

[olds442jetaway]

Fun and anticipation with the same comp awards. Sounds good to me. On my post below, I only had to put in 2 twenties, to reap the 16,000 nickels. Will it happen soon again? Probably not. Did we both have fun and stay entertained for the entire trip? Borrowing again from FP, I think he said once....you bet....Speaking of fun, I did reserve a room months ago for the Super Bowl. Somehow, it went in as comp. Don't know how, but if the weather holds, tonight I'm going to take advantage of it. Work day for the Mrs. though tomorrow weather permitting. If I do go up alone, most $ stays home with the piggy bank...the Mrs. Still working on my discipline a little. The girls at home will probably be content to watch the puppy bowl and forget the game less the commercials.

     Edited to add.....I hear there is a new reality tv show in the works...It is called VP Survivor... It features known CS players from the forum as well as some familiar guest appearances.    

[BobDancer]

We all already know how irrelevant Today's Score is if the person will gamble again in the future, it only affects one's mood for the time being.I disagree that most of the primary posters here agree with "Today's Score Doesn't Matter."One-coin strategies are all about "today's score."Adding positive Martingales (adding more after a win) or negative Martingales (adding more after a loss( are both all about "today's score."Disputing that video poker is math-based is all about "today's score."Posting pictures of big wins on really bad machines is all about "today's score."Concentrating on the luck factor in video poker rather than the skill factor is all about "today's score."Knowledgeable players (which can include knowledgeable recreational players) know that video poker is a long-term grind-it-out affair. For these people, short term results are largely irrelevant. Alpax, you appear to be in this camp that understands this. So does Vman, although he's only an occasional player. It's a philosophy that can lead you to winning at this game. But most others here do not understand this and largely have the view that luck is paramount and nobody is lucky enough to win over time.

[Tedlark]

Even though I post about "today's score" I too am in the long-term grind it out camp. Even though I have had a run of good luck in the last couple years or so, it hasn't always been that way. Video poker has been my primary source of casino gaming since 1993 and before that it was mainly a mix of craps and blackjack. Slots have always been somewhat boring to me.

I've had some negative years since 1993 and I completely understand that playing video poker is a long-term engagement.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Bob Dancer]Knowledgeable players (which can include knowledgeable
recreational players) know that video poker is a long-term grind-it-out
affair. For these people, short term results are largely irrelevant. [/quote]The only thing that can happen when you "grind-it-out" on a 96% video poker game is to watch your losses quickly overtake your bankroll.  With a 4% house edge, there are not enough royals in the world to make this game playable long term.  If you are going to play these games, you must have a strategy to limit losses.  There are only two proven ways to do this, play slower or bet less. CS does the later while allowing you the possibility of a max coin jackpot.  If you can play single coin without that incentive you don't need CS.

[olds442jetaway]

I know all about long and short term results. Good short term results do in fact make you feel good for a short time. Unfortunately, for some, long term good results may not come around for some in their entire lifetime while for others, good results happen quite often. Obviously, skill and playing the absolute best paytables will assist one in achieving good long term results, but as most know, in life there are no guarantees except death and taxes. I'm afraid, that second one may not apply much anymore to over 50% of the people in the good ol USA.

[BobDancer]

The only thing that can happen when you "grind-it-out" on a 96% video poker game is to watch your losses quickly overtake your bankroll.  




On that we agree. Successful video poker players avoid such games like the plague. In your case you have 99.5% games close at hand --- along with a slot club, mailers, and promotions. Success is there for the taking if you want it. You're not required to want to succeed at video poker. You're not required to play for dollars even though you're a multi-millionaire. You are not required to have the emotional wherewithal to survive the slightly higher swings.But if you really believed "today's score doesn't matter" like Alpax suggested everybody here believes, you wouldn't be making the decisions you are.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Bob Dancer]You're not required to want to succeed at video poker.
You're not required to play for dollars even though you're a
multi-millionaire. You are not required to have the emotional
wherewithal to survive the slightly higher swings.[/quote]I am also not required to make video poker the most important thing in my life. Video poker is a game that I enjoy playing as entertainment.  I choose to keep it a game and not be overly concerned with math, profit, swings, who's a millionaire or who succeeds at what.  I think most players would be better off if they played like I do, but I do not try to tell them how to spend their own money.  I tried your 'grind-it-out" strategy for years and all I got was "ground up".  No Thanks...

[pokerpokerpoker]

But when you take a bad beating many times in a row, it is hard to keep the big picture in mind. In my area, at the $1 level, there are positive situations to be had. Mostly due to progressives with a good meter rise. In particular, 5 meter games.

My last 2 trips, totaling $2100 resulted in a total of 1 quad for $250. I was on positive expecation machines playing max coins with no mistakes.

As a knowledgeable recreational player, losses like that sting and just make it hard to remember it is a grind.