Newbie to VP

[cddenver]

But as for "hit frequencies".....that's beginning to sound like voodoo or something equally mythical.  That concept, if valid, would violate the functionality of the requirement that the machines mimic the randomness of a hand dealt from a deck of 52 cards....and that is a requirement that I have seen in every regulatory document in every State that I have seen such documentation for.
 
Here in CO we have a maximum legal return on slot gaming of 100.0%.  That means, in effect, that every available game is negative return and what you see at higher denominations are better paytables.  Question:  In states with maximum legal returns greater than 100.0%, couldn't you have a situation where machines with games having potential returns greater than 100.0% have the better paytables at LOWER denominations?  Sort of loss leaders on a few machines to get customers into a casino?
 
You're right about the randomness provisions in state regulations.  If the chances of hitting VP jackpots varied by denomination, that would mean that at different denominations you'd be getting more favorable deals and/or draws - the games would be modifying the card values, and that's a no-no.
 
I think that the Nevada regulations say it best - in any slot type game that could have a real life analogue (such as VP, which could be played at a table with a dealer) the probabilities have to match those you'd see in the "live" version of the game.
 

[MikeA]

Question:  In states with maximum legal returns greater than 100.0%, couldn't you have a situation where machines with games having potential returns greater than 100.0% have the better paytables at LOWER denominations?  Sort of loss leaders on a few machines to get customers into a casino?

 
Certainly CD.  That is why it is very important when you are playing the machines in a casino that you check the pay tables on each denomination that you might be willing to play.
 
Not only that, but you should check another machine if the one you are currently looking at does not have acceptable paytables.  Time and time again, I've seen a machine with poor paytables sitting next to one looking exactly like it in the same casino that has good pay tables!
 
In fact, I was stopped by security and hassled for 20 minutes at the California Club on Fremont (okay, just off Fremont) because they thought I looked "suspicious" because I was pressing buttons on a lot of machines but not putting any money in any nor was I sitting down at any of them.
 
In fact, I was checking paytables and it takes a few button presses to check multiple denominations and multiple games for good paytables.  The security guards apparently had no concept of paytables or the did and didn't want me or anyone else, checking them out!
 
Just across the street at Main Street Station, there was for years a bank of 10 mulit denomination and multi game machines in the northeast corner of the casino.  All of the machines but one had nickel DDB at 9/6.  ONLY ONE of the machines had 10/6 and it was 10/6 ONLY at the nickel level!  They have since rearranged that bank of machines and the 10/6 is gone, replaced by 9/6.  But you had to LOOK to find it!

[shadowman]

In Las Vegas you often find the best paytables at .25. Sometimes (although not often) they lower the paytables of higher denoms and other times (most often) they just don't provide the better games. The best example of this is the Stations casino's optimum machines where FPDW is ONLY available at .25 and less. At .50 and $1 this game is not available.

[royal flush]

we all wish dollar fpd was around $30.00 per hour average with optimum play plus comps

[EDC1977]

Again we've strayed from the original topic. Some of us are so predictable! MikeA, apologies if I caused confusion inre to my question. When I reference hit frequencies, I merely refer to the different ratios of hits per hand IE; RF 1 in 42K etc. etc. not some voodoo curse or Fa La La La La.... La la la la prediction. Most hand hits have been "mapped out" so to speak in that someone took the time to chart how often certain hands hit per session/day/period. That was my my question. I queried why it seems that it takes longer to hit the bigger hands at lower denoms. It could be coincidence but I've logged in a few hours at lower denoms and it sure seems that way!

[damule]

Originally posted by Mike A
 
In fact, I was stopped by security and hassled for 20 minutes at the California Club on Fremont (okay, just off Fremont) because they thought I looked "suspicious" because I was pressing buttons on a lot of machines but not putting any money in any nor was I sitting down at any of them.
 
In fact, I was checking paytables and it takes a few button presses to check multiple denominations and multiple games for good paytables.  The security guards apparently had no concept of paytables or the did and didn't want me or anyone else, checking them out!
 
 
I find that absolutely hillarious Mike. The 1st thing I do where ever I go to play is check all the machines: different denoms, pay tables, etc. How dare the security guards interfere with our homage to the best paying video poker machine available, LOL.

[cddenver]

In fact, I was stopped by security and hassled for 20 minutes at the California Club on Fremont (okay, just off Fremont) because they thought I looked "suspicious" because I was pressing buttons on a lot of machines but not putting any money in any nor was I sitting down at any of them.

 
I've heard they'll check out people who are scruffy looking or appear down and out.    I do the same thing, but no one's ever questioned me about it.
 
The closest I've come to having a problem with security was some years ago when a cashier shorted me $50 on a bucket of $1 tokens.  They kept reporting me on their little radio as an "irate customer" (I wasn't irate; I was just complaining).  While they checked their token counter I took a restroom break, and security followed me there and back.  They didn't find any problems, and I grumped my way back to the machine I was playing, with security still following me.  When I got back to my machine I saw $50 in tokens still in the coin tray ().   They'd asked me, of course, if I was sure that I had all my tokens.  I did go back and apologize to the cashier for doubting her, and gave her a little something.
 

[MikeA]

When I reference hit frequencies, I merely refer to the different ratios of hits per hand IE; RF 1 in 42K etc. etc.
 
No appology necessary Ed. 
 
It is the result of probabilities and those do not change with a change in denomination as long as the game doesn't change and the player's strategy doesn't change when he changes denominations.
 
My only point was that if there appears to be a difference in the number of occurences of any given hand at different denominations, it is either the randomness of the game, selective memory, or if you are into conspiracy theorys, the machine's functionality has been tampered with making it utilize something other than a pure random number generator to control the draw and redraw of cards.
 
My money is on selective memory (I do tend to remember bad hands and sessions more than I recall good ones) or just the "luck of the draw".  I still maintain that the casinos have too much to lose in tampering with the machines which would put them out of compliance with regulations.  They really don't need that additional advantage over the players.  Hell, I'd be willing to bet that at least 90% if not more Video Poker Players do not know solid Basic Strategy for the games they are playing and that in itself gives the casinos far more revenue than eliminating 1/2 the RF dealt out on a machine!

[EDC1977]

I couldn't agree more on both accounts! I don't know about "selective" memory but it seems I lose more often than I win. If I logged more sessions in and kept track of my play, I'm sure it would even out. Many don't know proper play strategy. I know two people who don't but still manage to win some good ones now and again. They also lose a lot. Can you imagine having Verna sit next to you and ask which cards to hold practically every deal? Thats what my lady friend does to me. Lucky I'm tolerant. Maybe I should send her to VPtruth.com?

[oej719]

I am sure he could use some new business about now.
I hear the soup lines are very long in Phx Az.