Discuss the strategy in this Video

[Quad Deuces]

[quote=DaBurglar] payout for the full house could mean the difference between eating a decent dinner or Mc-dogfood [/quote]That is not playing within one's bankroll.

[DaBurglar]

That is not playing within one's bankroll.

  You'd be correct if you are talking about a person such as Bub Dancer who is 100% professional in his play and decisions, if someone like him is reduced to having his diet predicated on a few specific hand decisions then he has probably transgressed some rule that professional gamblers follow managing their money.   And, likewise, if we are talking about someone who is in fact a gambling addict, well, EVERY decision they are making to play or not to play is done without any consideration to bankroll.   But I am writing from, and speaking for, the perspective of someone who simply regards VP as entertainment (actually more like self distraction) and any and all money I choose to spend in this pursuit is discretionary....being intelligent, I choose to play according to sound math and ev principals the vast majority of the time, but I still reserve the right to go off the board sometimes and do something different just because I want to.....and my reasoning and logic for each and every "illogical" decision can be varied and disparate.  Often after a crappy session during which I lost most of the money I earmarked for play, I might just STOP and not play the last 50 or 100 dollars I allocated for play and instead use it to go do something else....there is no mth or logic behind this, it is simply my preference to do this at that particular time;  the "utility" I look to achieve from continued VP play just is no longer there, i am no longer entertained, or distracted or relaxed from continued play, so i stop.  Similarly, after a losing session, I may consciously choose to spend LESS on something like a meal, or in-room movies, even though I did NOT stray from my budgeted bankroll, simply because it makes me FEEL better and makes me better prepared for my NEXT playing session where I can focus on playing correctly all over again. If you want to pretend and say you act like and perform like a robot each and everytime you go into a casino, and every single decision you make is always based on an adopted "Best Play" strategic philosophy, go ahead.....I'd probably say you are playing for the wrong reasons at that point, unless you tell me, TRULY, you are a professional player just like Bab Dancer. Either way, My Filet Mignon, or my Big Mac, tastes exactly same. Note:  I've resisted the urge to turn this into a long dissertation on how "Utility" and "Opportunity Cost" and evolving consumer expectations all figure into how a person may or may not spend money on something like Video Poker, but we can go down that road if you wish....My posts are generally structured and worded to avoid ABSOLUTES, to avoid painting myself into a corner, or to avoid inflexible one way conclusions or interpretations, simply because outside of the "Math" we all claim to follow, there are no absolutes in recreational gambling. 

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=Quad Deuces]
That is not playing within one's bankroll.

 
 
You'd be correct if you are talking about a person such as Bub Dancer who is 100% professional in his play and decisions, if someone like him is reduced to having his diet predicated on a few specific hand decisions then he has probably transgressed some rule that professional gamblers follow managing their money.   And, likewise, if we are talking about someone who is in fact a gambling addict, well, EVERY decision they are making to play or not to play is done without any consideration to bankroll. 
 
But I am writing from, and speaking for, the perspective of someone who simply regards VP as entertainment (actually more like self distraction) and any and all money I choose to spend in this pursuit is discretionary....being intelligent, I choose to play according to sound math and ev principals the vast majority of the time, but I still reserve the right to go off the board sometimes and do something different just because I want to.....and my reasoning and logic for each and every "illogical" decision can be varied and disparate.  Often after a crappy session during which I lost most of the money I earmarked for play, I might just STOP and not play the last 50 or 100 dollars I allocated for play and instead use it to go do something else....there is no mth or logic behind this, it is simply my preference to do this at that particular time;  the "utility" I look to achieve from continued VP play just is no longer there, i am no longer entertained, or distracted or relaxed from continued play, so i stop.  Similarly, after a losing session, I may consciously choose to spend LESS on something like a meal, or in-room movies, even though I did NOT stray from my budgeted bankroll, simply because it makes me FEEL better and makes me better prepared for my NEXT playing session where I can focus on playing correctly all over again.
 
If you want to pretend and say you act like and perform like a robot each and everytime you go into a casino, and every single decision you make is always based on an adopted "Best Play" strategic philosophy, go ahead.....I'd probably say you are playing for the wrong reasons at that point, unless you tell me, TRULY, you are a professional player just like Bab Dancer.
 
Either way, My Filet Mignon, or my Big Mac, tastes exactly same.
 
Note:  I've resisted the urge to turn this into a long dissertation on how "Utility" and "Opportunity Cost" and evolving consumer expectations all figure into how a person may or may not spend money on something like Video Poker, but we can go down that road if you wish....My posts are generally structured and worded to avoid ABSOLUTES, to avoid painting myself into a corner, or to avoid inflexible one way conclusions or interpretations, simply because outside of the "Math" we all claim to follow, there are no absolutes in recreational gambling.  [/QUOTE]
That's why I feel fortunate to have my meals comped when I am on a gaming trip. I may have earned it, but I still am appreciative of the comps. My dietary needs are met, along with all the other activities (golf, spa, shows) that I may choose to enjoy, regardless of my gaming results in any given trip.
 
Life is good..

[Paul_E_Wog]

[QUOTE=shadowman] BTW, it was beyond obvious that BS was really RS in disguise so we've all had a chance to deal with him over the last couple of years.  I'm delighted that BS is no longer here --- he was definitely a negative disruptive force here --- but I don't think he and RS are/were the the same. As "evidence" I looked at the past 10 posts by RS on vpFREE. [/QUOTE] His VPFree posts don't look anything he posts at other places and my guess is he is on a very short leash there.  Read the BabyBubba posts on this forum to get a feel for what his posts usually are like.Or I'll save you the trouble.The initial quote(s) below are from within just the single "Civility" thread:http://forum.videopoker.com/forum/forum ... ID=4722and were posted by backsider, the additional quotes with links are either BabyBubba (Robs admitted alias here), or more recent posts by Rob.Fa La La La La.... La la la la on AlanBestBuys.com:--------------------------"Is your illiterate writing ability an act or is it your best effort? ... If you make some sense I could answer"http://www.videopoker.com/forum/forum_p ... 5#3315"May I ask you to please repeat that in readable English?http://www.videopoker.com/forum/forum_p ... 067#4067"I didn't understand most of that and from what I've seen, you really have trouble putting sentences together in order to make sense to others------------------------"Jane, I always tip the cocktail waitresses well, but I base the tip on their looks. Look hot and service doesnt matter. Fat and ugly gets very little with me. What they make for a wage is none of my business and not my responsibility to bolster""I only said I dont tip fat & ugly waitresses "as well". Why not, its a casino and you would expect exceptional t&a, no?"http://forum.videopoker.com/forum/forum ... D=499"From a professional player's point of view who gets around half-a-million in W2G's on average each year, I never tip anyone in a casino other than bartenders and cocktail waitresses--and the cuter the ass the more they get"-----------------------"Its called willpower and the ability to not be intimidated into feeling obligated to leave a useless tip. But since you are weak willed, you dont really want to hear that correct?""Claiming their wages arent enough is nothing more than a poor excuse for being weak and an easy intimidation target"http://www.videopoker.com/forum/forum_p ... 09"There's absolutely no reason to tip people who pay hand pays. Only those who are intimidated do so. It's simply a discipline thing."----------------------"Howdya like them apples, deuces?"http://forum.alanbestbuys.com/showthrea ... Played"And Lurker: Howdya like THEM apples?!"http://forum.alanbestbuys.com/showthrea ... e3"Howd'ya like them apples, Lurkerposter?!!"-----------------------And remember that was just one of many threads he posted in here; others mirror additional themes near and dear to Rob.  And this isn't a new phenomenon, it goes back many years.  In that same thread Backsider said:"You do have a serious, serious issue with RS residing inside your head, dont you"and in another thread:"Im also not sure what his goal is with the BS/RS reference unless that other guy is so far inside his head he may never come out"Rob, or his "friends", seem to obsess over this idea.  Here is "Keith Barker back in May of 2007:http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/me ... PAGE=3"but something tells me the gloves are not on your hands if you know what i mean, and he's really deep into your heads"Rob must have liked the line, because he used it on ******* in March of 2009:"Yes, and that means YOU, because I know even the biggest of critics love to hate to love me, and you just can't stay away since I'm in your head nearly every waking moment!"  Then there was BanjoJerry in February of 2010:http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/me ... TPAGE=2"My oh my, is Fa La La La La.... La la la la inserted DEEPLY inside your head".And in July of 2011 it was jpcos5:http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/forum/me ... PAGE=16"It amazes me that this guy is so deep into your heads..."Of course, maybe this is just one big coincidence.  Quack. Quack.

[BillyJoe]

Somebody explain to me why I should care whether Fa la la la la... la la la... la., under any alias, posts here. You can't even write RS's name - it turns into something else.  He is just one noise in the forest of sounds that make up the 'expert advice' on VP.

[DaBurglar]

I just finished reading a whole crapload of crap written by Sob Ringer in another forum on video poker, where he gets into a pissing contest with non other than Alan Mendelsohn, the investigative reporter.  Mendelsohn insists that Sob Ringer present his "evidence" or proof that VP machines operate on a preprogrammed cycle of Pay/Dont Pay nonsense, yet everytime Mendelsohn asks him to present this proof, Sob Ringer dodges the question or tries a redirect......it is truly hillarious, I mean pathetically hillarious that a person can be this deluded and think the rest of the world doesnt see how stupid he really is..... But like Billejoe, I must admit I really dont give 2 turds either way what anyone else says or doesnt say regarding VP and the proper way to play it.....I'm going to do what I want to do.

[moneyla]

Thank you Da Burglar for picking up that I challenged him for his claims about rigged machines.  I was frequently attacked for being his advocate and supporter. I do think he has some valuable positions and information when it comes to money management and win goals and leaving the casino when you reach a win goal. I think a few of his "special plays" also have some value, such as dropping the kicker when holding three aces in triple-double-bonus poker.  (Example: dealt AAA4K the correct hold is AAA4 but he says hold only AAA to give yourself an extra chance at getting quad aces.) I don't post here much but it's no secret who I really am.

[BillyJoe]

I do think he has some valuable positions and information when it comes to money management and win goals and leaving the casino when you reach a win goal.
YIKES !! I think that I have said that, too.  I was told, though, that "'professional players think that Win/Loss Stops are silly" .
 
I think a few of his "special plays" also have some value, such as dropping the kicker when holding three aces in triple-double-bonus poker.  (Example: dealt AAA4K the correct hold is AAA4 but he says hold only AAA to give yourself an extra chance at getting quad aces.)
 
OMG !! I do this also.  Can it be that I am starting to like this guy?
 
I don't post here much but it's no secret who I really am.
 
C'mon, who are you... really ?

[shadowman]

YIKES !! I think that I have said that, too.  I was told, though, that "'professional players think that Win/Loss Stops are silly" .  
 
Win/loss goals are perfectly fine when playing negative machines. They really do provide a benefit in limiting the amount of play. You play less ... you lose less.
 
They do not make sense when playing positive return machines for the same reason. In general the more you play when you have an edge the more money you will make. That is why pros think they are "silly".
 
The fact is win/loss goals do not change the return of a machine. That is mathematically impossible.

[DaBurglar]

"silly"??? I'll never cease to be amazed how easy it is for people to blur, or ignore the line between theory and reality.    I'd have to say that even for billionaires, a "bankroll" designated for gambling is not unlimited (actually what I just said was redundant, a billionaire even has a "limit" to his/her funds, namely "a billion" or thereabouts, duh.) If what the pros really are saying is "play until your BANKROLL is exhausted" instead of "it makes no sense to EVER stop when playing plus-side expectation games", then ok, but then they really should clarify. I'm not going to go as far to say I totally agree with Ringer's win/loss goal spiel, I say if thats what you WANT to do and it makes you more at ease and relaxed playing, then go for it....since gambling is NOT a necessity,and is really supposed to be a discretionary form of entertainment, I choose to not allow myself to be boxed in or confined one way or another....since I am not entertained by losing (well, not ALWAYS entertained, but sometimes a close call can be exhilirating), I will tend to do what gives me the best mathematical chance to win, or at least preserve my funds as long as possible,  But when people like SobRinger go "oliver stone" on me and try to tell me how what I am doing in a casino is preposterously stupid and dumb, and how they are right and anyone else who doesnt see that is CHOOSING to remain ignorant, well thats when this becomes a form of insanity instead of fun and relaxation.   Yes, I am CHOOSING, but not in the way he dictates.....