How much do we still not know?

[Tedlark]

  I never said I think anyone here is, or was, stupid. I think everyone here is great, except you. As for obsession; you're the one who said that you talk about me with your girlfriend.

[wildman49]

 So how do we get to a final decision that "for the most part" in the major casinos that the machines are either rigged or not rigged?  How do we answer that question?  I for one would like to put an end to the speculation. Roveer I think rigged is not the word more that these machines are programed. After all its just a computer right? I have seen them boot them up and the first thing I saw on the screen was Microsoft corp. come up on the screen. Its just software on a hard drive and some computer chips. A programer built it. If you take a game like DREAM CARD it has to know what card to give to the other dealt 4 cards. Its programed. Its not random for sure. The casino I play at has some very very old poker machines on the one bar top. These machines are programed to show 4 to the royal then holds the 4 and deals the fifth for the royal to get you to play I guess. This is at the CASINO I play at, I can't speak for where you all play or how the machines play, but I can hit 4ok all day on JOB, natural 4ok on DW but any bonus game its rare to hit one. Now we are playing with the same 52 cards yet 4ok on DDB is very tough. The big change I have seen just the last month or so is on the Bally machines Triple Trouble game. When I used to get in the 3 free games I never got less then 120 coins on max be after the 3 hands played out for 2 years now. But just the last month its now 60 coins. Very odd I must say. Not only that but you have a had time getting the 3 devils to show up anymore. I just think back to 1995 when RON HARRIS a computer programer  took down a 100k keno pot in AC and saw the "Vegas Cheaters Exposed " show that he said "KENO is not random at all"

[DaBurglar]

  I never said I think anyone here is, or was, stupid. I think everyone here is great, except you. As for obsession; you're the one who said that you talk about me with your girlfriend.I never said that you SAID everyone else here is stupid....it is IMPLIED in your position and in your actions and conviction that you need to "Stay on top of me" so that I do not influence anyone or anything on this forum.   Therefore it is your thinking that others here are INCAPABLE of identifying a nefarious "flip flopper telling lies" like myself as you claim, so you do what you have been doing which is to make this forum a travesty and contribute nothing except anti-burglar crappola.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=roveer]  So how do we get to a final decision that "for the most part" in the major casinos that the machines are either rigged or not rigged?  How do we answer that question?  I for one would like to put an end to the speculation. Roveer  I just think back to 1995 when RON HARRIS a computer programmer  took down a 100k keno pot in AC and saw the "Vegas Cheaters Exposed " show that he said "KENO is not random at all" [/QUOTE]
Anything that is created by Man cannot be totally random. The idea behind 'randomness' in a VP machine dealing cards is that there is no discernible pattern that can be observed, and hence, used to your advantage.

In Ron Harris' case, the 20+ year old technology that was in place back then allowed him to see a pattern in the Keno numbers after many cycles. He was not able to predict the EXACT numbers, but he was able to reduce the possibilities of the numbers being generated, which gave him a slight advantage. That technology has been updated, and improved, since that time, just as VP card generation has also been improved, to help eliminate any recognizable pattern.

[chattycattty]

I believe there is randomness but I also believe that on too many occasions that the exact card or cards I needed to make a monster hand, have came up at the beginning of the following hand. It has happened to me too many times to be a coincidence.

[didigoftam]

I Agree with Chattycatty
It happened to me on this trip several times. I was dealt 4 To the Royal (open Ended) Needed the Ace of Diamond. Didn't get it. Next deal, the first card was the ACE of Diamond. Also many many hands I was Dealt 3 ACES, never got to hit the 4th Ace, and Baaam the next deal the missing ACE shows up....
After reading all these comments and getting the info, I am seriously considering to stop playing High Limit VP. I rather play a game like BlackJack or Baccarat. What is the point of me playing a perfect strategy game when the machine is programmed not to give me that "MAGIC" card anyway. It just doesn't make sense at all.

[BillyJoe]

I believe there is randomness but I also believe that on too many occasions that the exact card or cards I needed to make a monster hand, have came up at the beginning of the following hand. It has happened to me too many times to be a coincidence.
If you play enough VP, CC, you will certainly see this. I happen to think that we tend to remember those frustrating occurrences, and forget all the times that it didn't happen.

[OTABILL]

I believe there is randomness but I also believe that on too many occasions that the exact card or cards I needed to make a monster hand, have came up at the beginning of the following hand. It has happened to me too many times to be a coincidence.

My wife has said/observed the same phenomena.

[smooth03]

I think it is random. I have been playing VP exclusively for 12 years and I can remember how even back then people were complaining about things being fixed.

The casinos don't have to mess with the machines, all they have to do is change the pay tables, as they have done.

I realize some of you are saying that now more than a few years ago you go long stretches of not having good hits. I think it has always been that way.

We just remember those bad stretches more than the good ones.

[DaBurglar]

I have said I believe (choose to believe) that MOST VP is fair and random and all that......But I also allow for the possibility (even likelihood) that somewhere at somepoint we may all have encountered a machine(s) that are not what they are supposed to be.I have said repeatedly I have 3-4 years of data from playing  mostly 99% games in AC and the stats just do not make sense......in all my other vp play elsewhere, such as VEgas Reno and a few isloated native casinos) I never had such out of bounds data for such a long period for such a game (99%)   As I investigated and asked around in AC, things just got murkier and murkier......Everyone knows what "DOGMA" is right?  well, one example of "Dogma" is what others have said repeatedly.....that CASINOS DO NOT NEED TO CHEAT, all they need to do is lower paytables.    Well, this is true, but is is also problematic:  consider, if a casino lowers paytables enough, eventually it will LIMIT the number and quality of players, as NO ONE WILL WANT TO PLAY SUCH AWFUL GAMES, and their profits will shrink.    ERGO, it is possible to visualize a casino having a 99% paytable and yet setting/programming the game to deal lots of crapola hands.ALso, the days when "Casinos didnt need to cheat" are passing us by....SOME casinos  (indeed, MANY) are now on the verge of extinction/going out of business.    THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE......in fact 10 years ago, such a thing as what is happening in AC now would have been INCONCEIVABLE, and anyone predicting or pointing to such things happening back in 2004 woul dhave been labeled a total paranoid idiot.     NOW LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING>>>>>>????Seriously, we can no longer simply hold to this old dogma and just pray and assume casinos will always be proper in how they deal with their games like VP.    It would be naive and silly to think that it is NOT possible (or even probable)  that some casino(s), on the verge of elimination, in a last gasp attempt to stave off such disaster, tries to squeeze more revenue out by doing things to machines that players will never know about.I do not WANT to believe this......and I again believe MOST casinos in AC, and ofcourse Vegas, Reno and elsewhere, have not done this......BUT perhaps a FEW casinos have jacked a portion of their machines and people like me have been victimized.   Perhaps some of you as well......