Definition of Winning

[brmcc74]

[QUOTE=brmcc74]
How can we put a percentage on a paytable when vp is RANDOM? If each hand is independent Then where do we get an average? I dont think anyone really understands this question.

 I understand it.  A computer is able to consider every possible hand and every possible hold for every hand, and actually compute the expected return for every possibility.  Played perfectly, as the number of hands played approaches infinity, the experienced return will approach the machine payout expectation.
[/QUOTE] Thank you for answering, key word=EXPECTED RETURN
Im not looking up the definition but I think it means= SHOULD happen
 
 
Shadow, great post.
 
Frank- I attempted earlier to explain that if you just play on the mathematical faith of Expected positive games, then I can see why you think the way you do.
 
jim18- I think that you said it best. Its all in how we perceive winning individually.
 
Really there are no wrong answers

[jm002546]

[QUOTE=jm002546]
[QUOTE=Frank Kneeland]
[QUOTE=jm002546]  When I go to Vegas I intentionally avoid knowing how much money I bring.  I have only run out of money the first time I went and was drinking heavily.  But I know in general how I fared.  Can anyone out-stupid that?

Easily, as long as I'm allowed to include my love life.[/QUOTE]You are hereby allowed.   We want every last detail, say, for the last 6 months. I hope there are some.  If you don't follow up with any then you have our sympathy - there's nothing to report.
[/QUOTE]Oh my there are many. If you check out my facebook page you'll see the most recent sources for my life complication. I had really high hopes for a handicapped physical threapist from Phoenix I met at a Ren Faire. The twenty year age difference and distance turned out to be insurmountable. I will miss her very much all my remaining days on this wretched orb. My last four girlfriends before her had been at least 10 years my senior. She asked me for my phone number and as you can imagine I was quite shocked. I knew it had a low probability of success, but as my Mom always used to say, you only really regret the things in life you didn't do, or at least didn't try to do.I'd rather not talk about ongoing situations for fear of souring the grapes.[/QUOTE]Anyone besides me that has never participated in facebook or twitter and has no plans to? 

[jm002546]

Well here is my new strategy. Since I play positive games, Im no longer gonna stop at x amount for a session. Im gonna exhaust the entire bkrl for each session unless I hit a rf. I am a guaranteed winner for life. THX Ive been looking at this the wrong way for a while. Now no matter how much $ I lose in a day, I will eventually get it back. Is that how my brain is supposed to work?  Ill drink the kool aid,Not saying it applies to you, but there is a difference in playing a positive game and playing that game positively.

[Frank Kneeland]

Anyone besides me that has never participated in facebook or twitter and has no plans to?  Yes well it's not like my love life is important anyway. I use Facebook for irrelevant things.

[royal flush]

no as to the risk of hackers they can hack you through your "friends" and whenyou "tweet about the big royal" you just hit you just found alot of unsaviory "friends"

[Frank Kneeland]

no as to the risk of hackers they can hack you through your "friends" and whenyou "tweet about the big royal" you just hit you just found a lot of unsaviory "friends" I don't tweet about anything gambling related. I think I've posted a couple of pics from a ren faire I attended, and a couple of Palms parties and not much else. As I said I don't use it for anything important nor do I consider hitting Jackpots to be anything special or news worthy either.You'll find no instance of me having ever talked about any dollar amount gambling winnings or jackpots I've ever hit, either on-line or in my book. Even if I wanted to, I always partner, therefore anything I do that's gambling related is confidential and not exclusively mine to talk about. It's like I've signed an NDA. I am not now and have never been a solo gambler.If someone did hack my Facebook page It would probably be a month before I noticed and of no concern to me. But thanks for the advice.

[Frank Kneeland]

Frank- I attempted earlier to explain that if you just play on the mathematical faith of Expected positive games, then I can see why you think the way you do.
 I re-read this and had a question. You used the word "faith" here. Why would I need faith?I don't talk about specific dollar amounts, but I have been doing this for a living, for like oh my god totally 23 years, OK so like totally for sure for sure...just gag me with a spoon. (whoops, seem to have channeled a valley girl)Bottom line "faith" does not pay the rent, nor would it sustain me over two+ decades, for faith is a hollow promise one can only fill with deeds.I'm just sayin, like totally! (arrgh, anybody got the number of a good exorcist?)

[brmcc74]

Frank, Ill give a go of this ................................Nothing that you say can change the way that I fell about vp. I have had a different experience with it than you have, or anyone else for that matter. And these experiences have been good , bad and real. I do know very accurately how to play the games that I play. With that being said, Due to the randomness of the game then there is no guarantee to be ahead. It always comes up about, Playing the right game, playing the right game right, having the edge. Most of us are doing those things already but when we post, there is always somebody who thinks that we must be doing something against the optimum rules.
The faith that I speak of is= The belief (GUARANTEE) that an individual will be on the positive side of playing a EXPECTED positive game throughout their personal vp career.  I believe that it is possible to be on a negative side of the game.  Theres nothing to argue here. One perceives things differently. I know the possibility exists.

 
Obviously you are an intelligent person. I also agree with something that you have hinted towards. You have invested way more time and money than me into this. Im sure that you have a better understanding of your long term and more importantly your personal experiences. I agree with 99% of what you say. The other 1 % seems to wreak havoc. Whats good for some may not be good for others.

[Frank Kneeland]

Frank, Ill give a go of this ................................Nothing that you say can change the way that I fell about vp. I have had a different experience with it than you have, or anyone else for that matter. And these experiences have been good , bad and real. I do know very accurately how to play the games that I play. With that being said, Due to the randomness of the game then there is no guarantee to be ahead. It always comes up about, Playing the right game, playing the right game right, having the edge. Most of us are doing those things already but when we post, there is always somebody who thinks that we must be doing something against the optimum rules.
The faith that I speak of is= The belief (GUARANTEE) that an individual will be on the positive side of playing a EXPECTED positive game throughout their personal vp career.  I believe that it is possible to be on a negative side of the game.  Theres nothing to argue here. One perceives things differently. I know the possibility exists.

 
Obviously you are an intelligent person. I also agree with something that you have hinted towards. You have invested way more time and money than me into this. Im sure that you have a better understanding of your long term and more importantly your personal experiences. I agree with 99% of what you say. The other 1 % seems to wreak havoc. Whats good for some may not be good for others.No, I don't think we are that different. What I was trying to say was that, yes, I have faith in the math. I also happen to be ahead, as is every other pro I partner with, so it's awful easy for me to have faith in something where my expectation has so closely matched my results.I seriously doubt that I would be able to play on in the face of lifetime loses, even if I had access to a hypothetically infinite bankroll. I'm just not that brave.I have the absolute faith of a total coward that just hasn't had anyone sneak up behind them yet and shout "BOO!".23 years of boring predictability. I am a product of my environment.With your experiences I'd probably think just like you.

[shadowman]

Playing positive machines will not guarantee a person that they will win. It's all about probabilities and there is always a non-zero probability that a person will lose every hand they play. There's also a non-zero probability that a person might hit a RF on every hand they play. Of course, those numbers are so close to zero that they have little bearing on reality.
 
The important issue is how do we influence those probabilities so that we have a better chance of being ahead? The answer is obvious to those who understand the math. It's the amount of the edge. As Frank has noted he likes to play with a 2-4% edge (or larger). My guess is those who have not achieved success rarely play with a large edge. Takes a lot less bad luck to overcome a small edge than it does a large edge.