Worst casino for video poker ever

[shadowman]

Being a programmer I can tell you it is as easy as pie to program anything you want into an application.  I have even written my own windows based VP game.  It's not a far stretch of the imagination for their to be a few IF THEN ELSE statements in certain situations.
 
Except for one problem. The regulations forbid ANY secondary programming. So, why would a company like IGT who controls 90% of the VP market jeopardize their near monopoly and violate the regulations? What's in it for them?
 
However their are requlations and checksums on these chips.  I have read them a few years ago and all I was really able to find out was that Poker is random and the payback limits for slots has to be at least 75%.  I don't think anywhere in there it says poker must be 96% or 98%.  So from what I understand the only requlation is that it is random and its payback a minimum 75%.  Now the math people here will tell you certain games will payback 98.7 or 99.63 or what have you based on the paytable but that doesn't mean it has to by law. 
 
The payback percentages are based on the paytable as you stated. This is because the regulations require each symbol (card in this case) to have an equal chance of appearing in all positions. That along with the random and fair requirements ends up meaning the expected return can be computed from the pay table. Of course, no real person is expected to achieve that return exactly since the return is also based on making optimal holds in every case. Most players are lucky to play within 2% of that value. And for more difficult games they often play as much as 10% below the ER.
 
 Long as its paying back at least 75% the law is satisfied, so is it possible for a certain set of sub routines based on what the machine has done in the past 24 hours, what it has done this month, is the player using a card, does the machine have alot of existing credits on it already, did it just hit a Royal Flush.  The answer is yes, it is possible.
 
Yes, it is doable, however, it would violate regulations and if IGT did it, they could lose their business. Not exactly something a company of that size would even consider.
 
Does it actually exists, well that nobody knows.  They can make claims but I don't think anyone here has ever got a direct replay from IGT or Ballys.  In the late 90's I got a reply from IGT on how the cards are choosen and displayed after the draw.  But after numerous attemps to several different departments for the past few years I don't even get a thank you but thats confidential.  Just flat out ignored.  So really until we hear it from the horse the debate will continue. 
 
The only available information was provided by some engineers that hacked IGT machines in the early 90s. They found the machines worked exactly as advertised.

[shadowman]

Here's links related to my last comment.
 
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... =clnk&cd=1
 
http://gaming.nv.gov/stats_regs.htm#regs   (see reg 14.040)
 

[backsider]

It looks like someone besides me rattled shadows cage already today. Now hes even smarter than a programmer.

I think weve heard that hokey argument about "the casino or igt would get shut down if this or that happened" too many times. Whos going to shut them down, the states? Youre good at making up rules for organizations such as the US Army & the USAF. But this time, SHOW US where a casino or igt type outfit has ever been closed up because of non-conformance, if it even IS non-conformance.

Facts shadow, facts. Not your own little world of "Im right". Ive never seen the majority on your side on anything here. See if you can convince them this time.

[ko king]

It's easy to explain the straight flush deal, you may have noticed an  increase in the amount of 4 cards to the flush off the deal. I couldn't hit a royal flush playing at Harrah's to save my life until a couple of years ago and in all my years playing there I bet I didn't hit 5 straight flushes. In the past 2 years I've hit 3 royals and a bunch of straight flushes, the other handpays have become very rare. Thanks for giving me a leg to stand on, at least I don't feel like a complete nut when I say the vp is just not the same there anymore.

[shadowman]

I find that interesting, and youre not alone in saying how "sub routines" are possible and probable in a vp machine. Ive read a lot of what the person shadow wants to believe I am has written. He mentioned how he tore down a new machine and thoroughly tested it, with confirmed findings of what youre calling sub routines.


 
Anyone with any logical capabilities at all know this is a lie.
 
If someone actually found that IGT was breaking the law and that led to increased losses by customers, all they would have to do is find a good lawyer and agree on a commission. The lawyer would then file a class action lawsuit on behalf of the millions of people who have lost money due to the illegal subroutines.
 
Both of them would get rich beyond their wildest dreams. So, if backsinger found these subroutines why has kept them to himself? For that matter, how would backsider know this at all unless he was really .... backsinger. The more he posts the more obvious it becomes.

[rascal]

 
 

As I have posted countless times, I have a relationship with someone who is a career casino executive and now works at the corporate level. Having a bit of an "insider's" view of the financial end of the business, it is absolutely laughable to me that anyone with even a lick of sense would believe that a public corporation that has invested millions and millions of dollars into its properties and licenses would then risk those properties and licenses (and a possible SEC investigation) for what is truly a nickle-and-dime gain. Laughable.It has been posted so many times on this forum that I really hate to repeat it, but I will: If you play at a regulated casino that adheres to Nevada standards, then you should spend your time worrying about paytables and player errors....not casino thievery.
On a totally different topic, I concur with you, Shadowman, about the ID of Mr. Backsinger. I guessed that a long time ago. While he may know nothing about VP, he definitely adds a lot to the entertainment value of this forum, so let's please be nice to him.
 

[shadowman]

On a totally different topic, I concur with you, Shadowman, about the ID of Mr. Backsinger. I guessed that a long time ago.
 


Yes, so did many of us. I think new2vp pointed it out first.

[backsider]

Whatever. You know, its unbelievable when Ive looked back over the threads, and whenever anyone posts anything saying they concur with what shadows obsession says, it looks like the same little group who all join in to agree with him. The most prominent one I saw was rolingdude. When he posted pictures of himself after being wrongly accused (what else is new) of being RS by shadow, the scene changed to how RS was puppeting the guy. Hows that for a humiliating lack of credibility?

Heres the list I remember: Ed, faygo, rascal, and edc are already joining in. Were waiting for oej and cdenver. Thats quite a formidable list of supporters of the insupportable, seeing that there are only tens of thousands of members here.

Rascal, who do you think people would tend to believe, someone who independently obtained a machine, tested and reported his findings to the playing community, or a casino executive? Duh.
Accept it, you are in the vast minority on this, and no one has to be RS to know or see this. Hes written about it on several forums and on one talked about what happened when he took it to the Nv gaming authority. Its all pretty easy if you read instead of make up everything that goes into your arguments.

[BillyJoe]

I'm sorry, but just based on common sense, I have a problem with this 'the casino can create a sub-routine to control VP outcomes" argument. Could it be done - of course, it's just code. But then why, for heaven's sake, do they have such crappy pay-tables on the strip if they were actually doing that? They are losing scores of VP players to local, non-strip casinos that have stronger pay-tables for no reason. Why wouldn't a strip casino put in a 12/9/7 DDB bank, for example, and just turn on the 'don't pay too much" sub-routine? The VP players would be busting the doors down to play there, and the casino would be raking in the profits.
 
Sorry, but that dog just won't hunt. Casinos are too greedy to pass up an opportunity like that, if they were able to do it without jeopardizing their entire business.   

[backsider]

What you say does make sense billy, and to me it far surpasses the "logic" shadow and his minions are using. The only comment would be that if a casino offered an unrealistic paytable, it might put up a red flag.

Guys, we just got word that were to shove off for Hickam AFB at 0300 for a week of classes and exercises, so Im checking out to get some shut-eye. No cell phones or computers allowed due to the nature of what were doing, so no skinning shadow until I return. If youre playing this week, good luck!