help with the math

[notes1]

i am a little surprised that there were no responses to vman's info. i must be the only dummy that did not know how much more expected loss one would have going from 9/6 to 8/5, on an hourly basis.

[alpax]

I think lots of discussions take a backseat to the ongoing feud between Ted and DB, thus I was not sure if you were satisfied with the response you got from Vman.

You do not need to appear dumbfounded, not everyone knows exactly the right thing to do from the very beginning in life, I believe those that learn from their mistakes or go through adversity come out stronger at the end (I do not want to start something controversial opinion-wise so I'll leave it at that). At least you've learned something really valuable in my opinion with regarding paytable differences between 8/5 DDB and 9/6 DDB. Good beginners books and gambling experts state that for each flush and full house credit off of the full pay table, you can expect a decrease in 1.1% of the return. But it is not quite common how much of an effect losing a whole percent is to the average person. Thus I never expected 8/5 JoB to be more than 5 times worse than 9/6 JoB before I did extensive research on video poker and fully embraced the long run benefits.

I have done far worse things in the gambling world than you playing 8/5 DDB, chased slot progressives and played a ton of lottery scratch cards in hopes for a lucky financial turn around. Instead I have a self-inflicted deep financial wound that might take years to recover. In the past, though I always hear Video Poker is the better game from gambling experts, I've occasionally played 8/5 quarter Jacks or Better without proper strategy and kept losing. It never provided the multi hundred dollar wins that a slot machine could, so I never really gave V.P. a legitimate shot in the past until last year when I saw people were winning on DDB (getting 2s/3s/4s or AWAK). There I thought it was possible to be able to win on VP. I also took a hiatus from gambling at the time, even came to a point of quitting gambling all together, but I find V.P. to be manageable with a proper plan that I am doing.

If you will be moving to Florida like you stated on another post, I think 8/5 is the best it gets for DDB there. It would be good for you to learn Airport Deuces to be able to play longer.

If you play at CET properties exclusively, I would not recommend Vegas as a low denomination player. Reno/Lake Tahoe that are within the state of Nevada or even New Orleans has much better options to boost your status at much favorable paytables.

[notes1]

alpax, thanks for the response. while i was not happy with what vman said, the way he answered it, was exactly what i was looking for. i told him i appreciated the effort he put in.  not everyone's brain works the same, so i needed a real life example of how the credit reduction translated into actual expected losses. and, that is what he provided me. i am still amazed at what a difference it makes. i know what i am about to say drives some folks crazy, but i never expect to play a VP session and come out a winner. of course, i hope to, but i play for the fun and entertainment. like many folks who have a stressful job, i find going to the casino a real break. i do not drink, no drugs and do not gamble on anything else, and as you noted, i am a low denomination player. just going every 2 weeks for a 10 hour session is great therapy for me. if i wanted to make money, i would stick to investments. while some may disagree, the long term results are a positive expectation as oppossed to a negative expectation. what really bothers me is, that as i get closer to winding down my career, i had hoped to spend more time playing VP. but, as the cost of playing has increased and because i am only willing to tolerate a certain amount of loss, i will need to make adjustments.   i am a little curious, if you are willing to expand, when you stated you have 'self inflicted deep financial wound'.   

[MPD001]

1004 Tier Credits at CET is a lot more than 5000 hands at quarters.

At most CET properties, for non-Full Pay VP, $10 coin-in = 1 Tier Credit.

1004 Tier Credits at only VP would be $10,040 coin-in.

5000 hands of quarter VP, max bet, would be $6,250 coin-in.

[notes1]

mpd, thanks. i played only quarters, only single line, played at cherokee, max bet and only put around a total of $100 into slot machines. per your numbers, does that mean over a 12 hour session, i was playing more like 600 hands per hour as opposed to my guess of 400/hour?

[Vman96]

When you say $100 total on the slots,   do you mean "coin in"? If that was your real loss, then your coin-in would be significantly higher.

I could run a sim on what 5000 hands look like for 9/6 vs 8/5 DDB, but I'm a little short on time right now.

I'm also guessing you probably played more than 400 per hour. Especially if you didn't play in the slowest speed setting.

[MPD001]

mpd, thanks. i played only quarters, only single line, played at cherokee, max bet and only put around a total of $100 into slot machines. per your numbers, does that mean over a 12 hour session, i was playing more like 600 hands per hour as opposed to my guess of 400/hour?
Notes1, how did you arrive at your 1004 Tier Credit number? If you saw that number several days after your play at Cherokee, it probably included 125 bonus Tier Credits, assuming you earned at least 500 Tier Credits in one day. That, plus what you earned by playing slots ($5 coin-in = 1 Tier Credit) may help explain the difference that you see.   

[notes1]

appreciate both of you looking into this. i LOST approx $100 playing quarter slots, so yes, that would have would have been more than $100 coin in. there was no big win, but, it also did not just disappear quickly.  when i quit playing, i checked the tier score on the machine, it read 1004. with the added bonus, my CET score now lists a little more than 2000. this was my only CET casino trip this year. so, if you do not mind assisting me, what i am looking for (8/5); -with all the details given, can you make an estimate at how many hands per hour i am playing. -if that estimate is more lke 600/hr, can you estimate what my expected loss per hour would be. i believe it was stated that at 400/hr, my expected loss would be about $63/hour.  thanks again

[alpax]

For CET. No matter how you got the 1000 points. You will also get an additional 1000 points for reaching that much in a day. Also bear in mind if you pay for any goods/services/hotel/food with real money and you show you have a TR card. You will get 1 tier point for every dollar spent. So it is just not limited to gaming. It could be from other sources.

[notes1]

i am aware of the bonus at the different point levels. in the 8 years i have been going to casinos, i have no memory of ever paying for a room, a meal or anything else. i can be extremely cheap. of course, my gambling losses have many times over paid for anything i have gotten. when i first started going in 06-08, i took junkets to AC. free plane rides (including my wife who does not gamble), free rooms, free food, free gifts, plenty of comps to get stuff from stores. you might have an average loss of $500. that was a great bargain. boy, those were the days.