2014 Reveiw & why I changed to the one coin system

[olds442jetaway]

I know this is a very hard thing to do, but consider one trip and just play one coin the entire trip. I think you will be amazed at the percentage returned. It will probably be very high compared to max bet or similar on most of our trips. This is just my opinion, but I play enough hands a year to get a feeling on how the casinos may be adjusting the hits so the number and type of hits fits the norm but they will be skewed toward one coin play. I think they can justify this because the hands will match the paytables. Lately, I have seen several players put in a twenty dollar bill and cash out 40 or more and that is after playing several hours on the same money. Try that on max bet and most of the time you will be wiped out. I have kept my own rough percentages on premium hand hits for the last several months. My error rate is about 10 percent, since I am going mostly from memory which is still very good for this kind of stuff. Of all of the premium hands hit, 75% have been on one coin play and only 25% on play of 5 or more. The percentage gets even worse for premium hands played at the casino max bet of 25 units. For me, there were no premium hands hit at that bet level.
     Now the above in itself makes no sense unless you also know the percentage of play at one coin, five coin, and 25 coin. For me, one coin is about 25 percent, 5 coin at about 72%, and max bet of 25 coins at about 3%.
     Right there, you can see the tremendous difference on where the premium hands are hitting. By premium hands, I don't mean just Royals. To get a larger sample, I counted a premium hand as a hit of 25 for 1 or more.
     Maybe one could say that well, he only played 3% of his play at the 25 unit level or more so you wouldn't expect many if any premium hands with only 3 percent of the play at that level. My answer is most of you know I play over a million hands a year. I have only been watching this closely for 3 months so lets take a very conservative number of 200k hands for the last 3 months.
Three percent of 200k is still 6k hands. I can understand that you wouldn't expect to hit a Royal in 6k hands, but come on. Not even one quad on a job game or Wild Royal in 6k hands. That is a bit much to take for me. I'm sure there are others out there that haven't kept a sort of count on this, but they can feel the difference. To me feeling and seeing the difference and counting it is just about the same as are the results.
     If the weather clears later and doesn't ice up, I plan an overnight tonight. I am really going to force myself to play one coin the entire time. That should result in between 5k and 7k hands played. I will report back on the results if I am able to do it. I really need a coach sitting by me with an electric cattle prod to make sure I follow through.    I will try for sure and no real beer tonight to help things along.

[alpax]

I think a lot of recreational players are reevaluating their leisure dollars and coming to the conclusion that they are not getting their money's worth.  This is a death spiral for the casinos because they make most of their money from slot players.   The casino loses money, so they reduce the slot odds.  The casino loses more money and they reduce the odds some more.  Sooner or later the players rebel and stop going or start inventing cheaper playing solutions.   On top of this, developers keep building more casinos which doubles down on the problem.  I don't know what the solution is, but maybe some day it will be like the old days and Vegas will be the only gambling destination worth playing.  As for us, we'll play as long as we can keep the cost to a reasonable level.

Very well said about the current status quo of the casino industry. I had to make major adjustments and picking up VP last year was a big part.

I have been following the thread and what is really missing from all this is time to time players need to take potshots to add dynamic to the bankroll. Higher denominations usually have better paytables and one good hit is all it takes to extend play.

[DaBurglar]

Very interesting and compelling thread everyone!!  Thanks for sharing all your various experiences, observations and exploits, and in particular thanks to Olds442  for your open, candid and honest descriptions of your various gaming sessions.   While I am sorry your results have not been as good as you'd like, I am enjoying your storytelling and how you make it all very interesting.Kudos to Floridaphill too.....while I am personally not a follower or believer of your "system", I do admire how you stick to your guns and do not waver/vacillate in your practice and application....and I too admire your candor and honesty.Everyone else who has contributed or shared (and posted) something relevant to this thread/topic, including their own experiences, again I appreciate your contribution(s)....... Olds442:  AM I correct in assuming all your experiences related in this thread thus far are sessions that took place in Mohegan Sun?   Or have you also managed to play at Fox(y)Woods a little this year so far???FYI:   I may be in and around Mohegan sun on MLK day, Monday January 19......any chance you might be in the "neighborhood" as well?????   Keep in mind, if I am there it will be almost certainly to play real live Poker (n/l Holdem, most likely one of their tournament events which usually offer a pretty good chance at a decent payday!!!!!)

[FloridaPhil]

I too have observed the phenomenon of single coin jackpots being more common than playing the same number of hands at max coin and  I have a chance to observe this more than the average player.  I'm not sure how they are doing this, but it's true at least where I play.   This is the main reason why I take my potshots with single coin $5 play and so  far it's been very profitable.

[wildman49]

I too have observed the phenomenon of single coin jackpots being more common than playing the same number of hands at max coin and  I have a chance to observe this more than the average player.  I'm not sure how they are doing this, but it's true at least where I play.   This is the main reason why I take my potshots with single coin $5 play and so  far it's been very profitable.




Phil I have to ask you, are you seeing more royals at the minimum bet?As of yesterday I hit my 6th royal in the last 60 days playing the system. Five on minimum bet one on max bet. Now its way to soon to say there is something going on in the programing. I will say if this keeps up all of 2015 where I play, we know the program is stacked at the low bet, but lets give it many more months of play here first. One thing I see a lot is at the $1 level when I hit MAX BET and get a good pay its dealt to me. Many wild royals dealt at the dollar max bet, five of a kinds also. Not sure why that is. One other thing I seem to hit better on the lower pay tables. I play the 99% plus tables first. But  score very few top hands on them at the max bet.Love the system, one thing that I add for me is put in a 20 when I get to 10 I cash out and move. Put the ticket at the bottom of my 20's and start with a 20 at the next machine. I tend to move a lot looking for a machine giving out the deuces more then others.A person can use the system really at any level. If your a dollar player and have a big bank roll, you can start at the $1 level and move to the $5 level. I have started at the 50 cent level and just doubled the quarter system. Just let the system work for the size of your bank roll. But if you are a quarter player just use Phil's system as is.

[wildman49]

Phil will respond back I'm sure. With his method, you will win the small quads most of the time and the big wins will be few long term. It works for Phil and keeps losses way down. That is the whole idea. I think it is good for most players. I just can't seem to connect with it due to my long cold streak with a few blip exceptions. Olds It took me about 2 months of the system on and off till I went full time with it. Just as Phil said, I can't play any other way now. You have to play it 100% of the time for 8 to 10 trips to see the true workings of the system. The only  full max bets I do now is  9/6 JOB on 5 cent 10 coin machines for a break from the system.

[FloridaPhil]

We probably should move this thread over to the Recreational Play forum.  It does seem to me that premium hands are more common playing single coin.  I'm not sure about Royals, but quad deuces do hit more often for me.  Keep in mind that playing single coin allows you to play more hands with the same bankroll, which gives you more chances at a jackpot.  Also, short term play of even a few years is not enough to make a definite judgement. That said, I went from losing $5-$10K a year to winning so who cares.   I do play higher denominations often.  I only do this when I'm ahead for the day.  Most of my really good hits have been doing this.  It's so cool to put in a $20 and hit a $1,000 or $4,000 ticket.  This doesn't happen to me everyday, but it does happen.  As long as you keep your pot shots small, play with the casinos money and cash out immediately when you hit one, you'll be fine.  The pros will tell you this doesn't work, but they are not playing our games with our money.  You are doing battle with a computer that is programmed to clean out your wallet.   The computer never gets tired and never makes an error.  The only weapon you have is deciding when to stop the program, cash out and go back to playing small where the computer can't hurt you financially.

[case]

My wife has played single coin for 14 years now and I play max coin. She has hit no more royals or 4 of a kind than I have.

What you guys are trying to say is machines are "fixed...or set" to pay one coin bettors better hands than max coin bettors. This is nonsense and just not true.

The cards are RANDOM....not set by how much a person bets.

It seems to me you one coin people are just trying not to lose as much rather than trying to win.

I also understand most have to play less than full pay machines and as such except that you will lose but are trying to limit the amount by playing less coin.

If you were on a full pay machine would you still play one coin? If you did you would be a looser over time. Just look at the math and see what percent you are giving up on the royal...and no way you hit more royals on one coin than on max. They hit frequency would be the same. This is over time and of course anything can happen in the short term. But if you play enough you will play to the machines payback.

No offense to you Phil and if you are doing good and are happy that is great. I am not slamming your system but many people are twisting the payouts saying things like premium hand come up more on one coin than max. If this were true the machines would be cheating. If that were the case you should not play at all.

Have fun but don't expect any long term profits on one coin even if the machine were full pay. It won't happen

[FloridaPhil]

If I could play full pay machines in a highly regulated state like Vegas, I definitely would play max coins. There are lots of reasons why playing single coin is a better choice for most recreational players.  With most negative expectation video poker machines the odds eat up your winnings so that no manner of wins will keep you from losing.   As for single coin paying more than max coins, I can only report what happens where I play. 

[alpax]

[QUOTE]It seems to me you one coin people are just trying not to lose as much rather than trying to win.

I also understand most have to play less than full pay machines and as such except that you will lose but are trying to limit the amount by playing less coin.

Have fun but don't expect any long term profits on one coin even if the machine were full pay. It won't happen [/QUOTE]

Most areas outside of Vegas have less than stellar pay tables for denominations less than the dollar. The vast majority of the quarter video poker games in my area are about mid 97% payouts, such has 9-5 DDB, 8-5 Bonus Deluxe, 20-12-10 Deuces Wild. It is nearly impossible to be a long term winner in the long run with a house edge for quarter players.

I totally agree with the fact that if you have access to Full Pay games such as 9-6 JoB, the single coin would hurt more than the max bet. The dollar denomiation is the minimum in my area to play 99% games, while my bankroll is not meeting the requirements of 3-4 times the Royal Flush. I play small sessions throughout each 6 months so I can squeeze as much weekly free play to my bankroll as possible. I also agree than one coin does not increase the chance of a premium hand appearing if the same number of hands are played as max coin bet, but with a higher volume of play, it will have more chances appearing.

Some people (FlaPhil, wild, olds) have the need to play long sessions of many hands, thus I do not judge players playing the system. The benefit of the one coin system allows for high volume of play with losing less.

For playing higher stakes, you have to value what the casino offers since most of the loss mitigation comes from it. Phil probably does not need free rooms from the local casino.