Video Poker is a Beatable Game

[DaBurglar]

[QUOTE=DaBurglar]

This is the simple truth, TRANSPARENCY is simple and straightforward in situations like this, and TRANSPARENCY will HELP YOU if you are honest and on the "up and up".....Bob could PROVE all his skeptics wrong if he wanted to......so why doesn't he?    I'm guessing, by his hostility, he cannot......Make it a 30 year vacation Bob, ok?    

What, exactly, would he have to provide to satisfy your transparency request?

Have those other pro gamblers you mentioned provided it to you?[/QUOTE]For crying out loud, THERE WAS NO "TRANSPARENCY request" by me!!!!   GO back and read the post I made (which was in response to BOB's detailed post)   that prompted Bob's condescending arrogant sarcastic defensive reply.......Seriously, go back and really re-READ it.    I never demanded (or even politely asked) for anything.......NOTHING!!!     I was simply outlining a possible tact (there's a word BOB desperately needs to consider), simply   "Suggesting" what might be done if someone like BOB wants to put the naysayers and skeptics (of which I was NOT one until his last post, and even now, I am not sure I care enough to be skeptical)  to bed, or at least put them in their place by showing them they are WRONG about Bob and what he does!    Why Bob would NOT want to do that is beyond me....... But since you mentioned the other people I know or am acquainted with, I never formally, personally or directly asked them for anything either (why would I?), but as it so happens, I know they are legit (as succesful gamblers) in what they claim to be (and what they claim is the result of what they do) simply because I see the car(s) they drive, the homes they live in, observe often enough, for long enough, how they live and how they act......I have played poker with them so I know how they play.....plus I know other people who know them (some of whom know them a lot better than I know them), and as always happens with cases like this, everyone compares notes and shares what they know, and we all verify what is DEFINITELY known versus what is "probably" known versus what is NOT known but suspected, etc etc etc.       You do not need to see a person's bank account details to get a GENERAL picture of their financial status.   And as I said, NONE of these people are in the realm of WEALTHY/Rich ..... Comfortably Secure or well off is the realm I place all of them in, which is usually the BEST professional gamblers can hope to attain.likewise, Bob does not need to show people a tax return, or bank statement to refute the skeptics ...... all he would need to do (again IF....IF he wants to put it to rest) is show his BASIC, simple  Video POKER PLAY Statistics for a given period (say a year) at a casino he plays at, showing the simple coin in, total profit and/or total loss.    THAT IS IT....Voila!   End of story.....and all the people who doubt him and his way of doing things are left holding their resentment and jealousy like limp sausages that have been in the Spaghetti sauce too long!       But as my previous post emphasizes, I am not asking, nor DEMANDING anything!!!!!

[DaBurglar]

DaBurglar you proved exactly here how you have treated Bob in the past and it goes alot deeper than just mis-spelling his name for comedic relief.     Ted, anyone who passed basic 5th grade reading comprehension knows you routinely distort what I write and its meaning, and "create" false issues and interpretations to anything I write if it allows you to spin another yarn of strife.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]This is one of the "you need money to make money" type of ordeals. The
quicker Mr. Dancer can accumulate bankroll, weather it be teaching,
books, radio show, or software, the better. You have to move up rapidly
to the $25 denomination play to make a living.
[/quote]This is what I have been saying all alone.   My problem is the people who are following his posts, buying his books and software and paying for his training classes generally do not have close to the bankroll or opportunities he has.   When they fail, he states "They will never be able to do what he does because he's so intelligent, skilled and talented."  Making six figures a year playing video poker is only possible if you have all the total sources of information and income he has available to him.  That's not to say his statements are untrustworthy, but you must take them in the context they come from.

[alpax]

[quote=alpax]This is one of the "you need money to make money" type of ordeals. The
quicker Mr. Dancer can accumulate bankroll, weather it be teaching,
books, radio show, or software, the better. You have to move up rapidly
to the $25 denomination play to make a living.
This is what I have been saying all alone.   My problem is the people who are following his posts, buying his books and software and paying for his training classes generally do not have close to the bankroll or opportunities he has.   When they fail, he states "They will never be able to do what he does because he's so intelligent, skilled and talented."  Making six figures a year playing video poker is only possible if you have all the total sources of information and income he has available to him.  That's not to say his statements are untrustworthy, but you must take them in the context they come from.

[/QUOTE]

That is correct. The people who purchased Video Poker for Winners and for as long as Action Gaming buys advertising time for VideoPoker dot com on Gambing With an Edge radio show , are funding toward Mr. Dancer's bankroll.

If you have a 0.2% edge from $100,000 coin in, that is only $200 theoretical win. This is a quarter player playing 100 hours at 800 max bet rounds an hour.

If you have a 0.2% edge from $2,500,000 coin in, that is $5,000 theoretical win. This is Mr. Dancer playing $5 VP for 100 hours at 1000 max bet rounds an hour (people who have witnessed Mr. Dancer playing have expressed it). Sometimes this can go up higher.

$200 can cover bare minimum living expenses for a week. But $5,000 can cover decent living expenses for a month.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]The people who purchased Video Poker for Winners and for as long as
Action Gaming buys advertising time for VideoPoker dot com on Gambing
With an Edge radio show , are funding toward Mr. Dancer's bankroll.[/quote]Understood. I believe the people that are buying his products are assuming he is making big money playing video poker alone, not from appearance money, super comps or raffles.   I would be fine with Bob Dancer if he would admit that he has advantages that the majority of his customers will never have, some of which have nothing to do with actually playing the game itself.   His recent posts have opened a window into a few of the things he counts as video poker winnings.  The title of this thread is "Video Poker is a Beatable Game".  I don't believe that's going to happen without some outside revenue source, whatever you want to call it.

[Tedlark]

[QUOTE=Tedlark] DaBurglar you proved exactly here how you have treated Bob in the past and it goes alot deeper than just mis-spelling his name for comedic relief.     Ted, anyone who passed basic 5th grade reading comprehension knows you routinely distort what I write and its meaning, and "create" false issues and interpretations to anything I write if it allows you to spin another yarn of strife.[/QUOTE]


I have no strife in my life DaBurglar. As for me creating issues between you and Bob Dancer, you don't need my help because you manage to do fine without it. I stand by my position that you have slammed Bob Dancer many times in the past and not just by mis-spelling his name. I still have my notes if you would like me to provide examples.

[BobDancer]

Post unable to migrate

[BobDancer]

likewise, Bob does not need to show people a tax return, or bank
statement to refute the skeptics ...... all he would need to do (again
IF....IF he wants to put it to rest) is show his BASIC, simple  Video
POKER PLAY Statistics for a given period (say a year) at a casino he
plays at, showing the simple coin in, total profit and/or total loss.   
THAT IS IT....Voila!   End of story.....and all the people who doubt
him and his way of doing things are left holding their resentment and
jealousy like limp sausages that have been in the Spaghetti sauce too
long!       Yeah, right. What's you're suggesting wouldn't serve any useful purpose. It would provide no transparency (in lower case or CAPS) and it certainly wouldn't silence any critics.There are casinos where I've lost more than $100K in a year. There are casinos where I've won more than $200K in a year. (A couple of casinos fit both categories, in separate years.)Whatever records I posted, anybody could correctly argue that it's just part of the story. It's like posting pictures of $1000 jackpots but without posting any of your losing sessions. an accurate picture is only obtained over a very long period of time. Am I ever planning on posting that? Not on your life.

[BobDancer]

[ Ted, anyone who passed basic 5th grade reading comprehension knows you routinely distort what I write and its meaning, and "create" false issues and interpretations to anything I write if it allows you to spin another yarn of strife.Well, I passed fifth grade reading comprehension (quite a bit more education that than, actually) and believe that most of the time Ted accurately describes what it is that you post.DB, you get very emotional and say some pretty awful things. In that respect, you have a lot in common with FP. I don't know what medications either one of your are on, but you need to take either more of them or less of them!You have the audacity to suggest that I'm the one lacking in tact. While I do tend to speak plainly and I don't suffer fools lightly, my posts are far more polite than those of either you or FP.

[alpax]

 
Both Alpax and FP are wrong in their assumptions.I certainly have never said you need to play $25 machines to
make a living at video poker. Most of the people who make $50,000 a year or
more do NOT play games that high. Plays on this size machine and larger account
for less than 10% of my annual coin-in. And why do you think I would risk that
much if the edge was only 0.2%? Why would I want to do that? That strikes me a
whole lot like gambling. I’m more interesting in collecting than I am in
gambling.

You guys are speculating about something you don’t
understand. Is money from teaching important? Again,
every little bit helps, but far more valuable is the study I do to prepare for
the classes. I get hundreds of questions every week about a wide variety of
video poker circumstances. It takes a lot of knowledge to successfully teach
classes like these. The study I’ve done to teach the classes is far more
valuable than the money I earn there.


I did not intend to make you upset with the speculations I posted, but I came up with those numbers since you've brought up playing 10 play Quick Quads at the SouthPoint on holidays, 10 play Ultimate X DDB at the Palms in 2013 and 2014 with .25% points cashback and Play for Prizes and the Weekly $10,000 drawings, $25 single line NSU Deuces, $25 single line 40/10/6 DDB play at SLS in 2014, as well as the magical night in 2001 at the MGM when you hit a royal flush prior to Shirley hitting the big one. To play hundreds of thousands of $25 hands, does require a bankroll over $1 million to be available, I assumed you were one of the few that had it when you average six figure winnings for the past 20 years, so I thought you were more than capable of handling that denomination. At least the first three scenarios about 0.2-0.3% edge seemed to be the range. But now I understand you need greater assurances of being in a winning scenario.

At least I know something new today that the upper echelon of 30 players who make $50k+ do not play for those stakes.

It is the first time to me the royalty amounts for VPW have been disclosed (Action Gaming sent out surveys to software purchasers, hopefully they will come out with an updated version?), so it is the first time knowing the royalties is not a significant part of the bankroll growth.

I have been in the education space in the past and Joseph Joubert's philosophy "To teach is to learn twice." is well instilled to prospective teachers to this day. So I understand how preparing for the classes is a vital part to keep your skills honed up. Not going to ask how much the teaching contributes to the bankroll, but I do remember hearing about Mr. Gaughan banking on these classes so people will play at the SouthPoint as a lucrative opportunity but will not continue their study.

I do regularly tune into Gambling With An Edge as long as it does not pertain to live holdem poker in which I have no interest in, but last night's episode is something very insightful and I will listen to again a few more times. I also vouch to others that it is a valuable episode. It does not paint a rainbow of Vegas of any kind. For the episodes I choose to skip, I go straight to the commericals to see whats going on at the Palms, Southpoint, and Videopoker.com.

I always understood it took way more dedication than what folks here would imagine to being professional player, and walking into Vegas at this time would be facing stiff competition. I am recreational player like FP and DB, and I lack even more knowledge of other things the professionals must do that is not posted on this forum but I will always try hard to play the best I can based on what I do know, at the same time for fun and entertainment even though I may not become a long term winner.