Las Vegas Shooter

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Tadlark]DaBurglar I offered the suggestion to Phil because right now he is
not much of a concern of Bob Dancer's. He isn't a pebble in his shoe nor
a thorn in his side. But at some point he could be as soon as someone
in the public mentions Phil or the CS to Mr. Dancer at one of his
sessions and Bob gets the inclination to look at legal remedies
regarding business disruption.[/quote]Gambling, like a lot of things can be harmful if done in excess.   You can smoke yourself to death like my Mom.  You can drink yourself to death, like my father-in-law.  Or you can eat yourself to death like so many people do these days.  I am not the moral police.  I obviously don't think recreational gambling is a bad thing or I wouldn't be on this forum to begin with.If I announce that I enjoy a gin martini in the evening, no harm done.  It will probably shorten my life by a few days or weeks, but I accept the risk.   If use my celebrity to proudly announce to the public that I drink a fifth a day and I'm still healthy, I am promoting drinking in excess. I think it's great that someone developed a VP strategy that allows players to play longer and keep more of their money.  I am not happy when that person announces he regularly risks the price of an average house in a casino and that strategy makes him a winner.   If in reality his strategy works as advertised, it is beyond me why he would want or need advertise it in the first place.  What societal good is gained by stating this in public or using it to promote the sale of products?No one is blaming anyone but the shooter for what happened in Vegas.   I doubt the shooter was an AP or that gambling made him do what he did.  This man was very sick and obviously evil to the core.   Unfortunately, we live in a society full of these people.  My negative feelings toward high stakes gambling are not unique.   I just happen to be the one this forum that is the most vocal against it.   I never said there was anything wrong with video poker classes or any strategy as long as you don't promote betting obscene amounts of money as a requirement for gaining an edge.

[billryan]

Different day, same old ****.

[FloridaPhil]

Ditto...

[onemoretry]

I never said there was anything wrong with video poker classes or any strategy as long as you don't promote betting obscene amounts of money as a requirement for gaining an edge.
Here is a quote from an information sheet I have: "Due to the infrequency of the higher paying hands, you must expect to lose during a normal playing session (two to three hours) approximately twice as often as you win. Video poker is a volatile game. In a very unlucky day's play at 9/6, it is possible to lose half the value of a royal flush (i.e., 2000 coins) on a single-hand machine, and approximately twice that on a Triple Play machine. In a very unlucky week's play, it is possible to lose the value of 1-1/2 royal flushes (i,e., 6000 coins) on a single-hand machine. Play at your own risk, and do not play with money you can't afford to lose. Do not chase losses. Stop playing if it ceases to be fun. It is possible to lose large amounts of money even while playing perfectly."

That sure does not sound like advice from a person promoting obscene betting levels to me.

[Eduardo]

We should ban all professional sports (or at least ban people from talking about them) because some uncoordinated doofus might think they can get rich playing golf or football or baseball and injure themselves trying. Look... professional gambling is a tough business. If it was easy, it wouldn't exist. If someone wants to give it a shot, they should definitely understand the risks and assess their abilities and never play beyond their means. Bob Dancer has always been VERY clear that it's not for everyone and that not everyone will succeed. He has written many articles stating as much.He has never that I have seen told people to go out and spend tons of money because it will make them money even if they lack the necessary skills. Quite the opposite. If you have followed him even loosely, you should know this.Do some people think they are better than they actually are? Oh, I'm sure they do. Do many people lose money gambling? Well, we all know THAT to be a fact. That is not Mr Dancer's fault, especially when he so often warns about that exact thing.I think you have spent so much time reading between the lines that you forget to actually read the lines.

[FloridaPhil]

I do not wish to ban all gambling over a certain limit and I do not have anything against all professional gamblers.  How they make their living is their own business.   What I have a problem with is someone using tales of high stakes gambling to bolster the sale of products or to pump up their credibility as an expert.  One of the first video poker books I read was "Million Dollar Video Poker".  I had only been in a casino once or twice in my life before that.  I was captivated by this book and have read it cover to cover at least 10 times.   This book lays out a VP strategy based on mathematics.   It talks about losing, but the hero always wins in the end and wins BIG!As a complete beginner, I was naive enough to believe this could happen to me as well.  When it didn't and I asked questions, I was told I wasn't intelligent enough or that I didn't have enough discipline.  I have pretty thick skin, so I let that pass.   I wondered if anyone else thought this was strange?  Why would someone who wins hundreds of thousands of dollars playing VP want to sit on this forum and single me out because I suggested playing single coin quarters could save a little money?Over and over again I read posts about making huge bets and winning big jackpots.   On one occasion we heard about a $100,000 royal hit in a chain of gas station casinos.  The disclaimer.  "It's OK for me to do this, but other people shouldn't because I'm special".  I'm sure this didn't stop anyone from trying, so the list of losers got a little longer.I think we should come clean with players and tell them there is risk in gambling.  We should say their results could be different than the math indicates.  We should say there are many smart well funded players who don't make it through no fault of their own.  In other words we should be honest about VP.  Strategy and math will only take you so far.

[onemoretry]

.I think we should come clean with players and tell them there is risk in gambling.  We should say their results could be different than the math indicates. 
How does " Play at your own risk and do not play with money you cannot afford to lose...............It is possible to lose large amounts of money even while playing perfectly" sound?

[billryan]

Million dollar Poker is the story of Bob and his wife going from low stakes to high stakes VP over a number of years. It isn't a strategy book. In fact, if you read the reviews on Amazon, the biggest complaint is that it doesn't teach strategy.
As you also insist that your CS is not a strategy, it's fairly obvious you don't quite grasp the meaning of the word.

Here is a review of the book by one of his peers
Review of Million Dollar Video Poker
They say, 'A good classic never dies,' and that is just as much true in the realm of gambling literature as it is in any other.  It is with that mantra in mind that I offer the following review of Bob Dancer's, Million Dollar Video Poker:
Bob Dancer is the co-host of the weekly gambling radio show, Gambling with an Edge, and is well-known by Las Vegas professionals and the greater gambling community alike as one of, if not the best, Video Poker players in the world today.  If he is not the outright best Video Poker player out there, he is certainly the best Video Poker professional who has gone public.  

The first aspect of this book that needs to be pointed out is that it is NOT a strategy book, it is a biography that, at times, reads like a novel.  With that said, there are certainly pieces of Video Poker strategy (mainly used on an, 'As needed,' basis to highlight how difficult correcting for certain pay schedules can be) to be found within the work.  The observant reader will also learn a good deal about how to look for, and combine, promotions to achieve a mathematical advantage.....

It appears Phil read a non-strategy book filled with valuable lessons on promotions and players clubs, got upset when the non-existing strategy didn't work and ignored the valuable lessons the book offered.

[FloridaPhil]

I have practically every book the author that calls himself Bob Dancer has written, some are better than others.  The underlying theme is always the same.   Winning video poker players are intelligent, losers are not.   One of the books I have is entitled "Video Poker for Intelligent Beginners".   It may take intelligence to understand the math behind the strategy.  There is no intelligence behind hitting a royal flush which clearly separates the winners from the losers.   Once you are skilled and disciplined enough, you still need luck to make them happen.  Years ago I gave an example of this on this forum.  Six Bob Dancers play the same progressive.  One hits it and the other five don't.  Which one is more intelligent?  Will they all die long term winners?If you are willing to risk hundreds of thousands of dollars of your money in a slot machine, you are a gambler not a scientist.

[billryan]

   If you keep repeating the same nonsense when poster after poster points out that you are incorrect, what does that make you in your book?
In mine, you are a liar.
If you understand math, you'll understand video poker. If you don't you'll worry about this session or this hand and ignore the long term.