It's Vegas Baby!!

[alpax]

We'll spend money for first class airfare and to drive nice cars, but playing VP for $10 or more a point doesn't turn us on.



I forgot to mention Mr. Dancer seems to be the exact opposite.



When we checked into the Red Rock the clerk asked us if we wanted to upgrade to a suite.  Not knowing what to expect, we declined.  I asked for a high floor non smoking room far from the elevator and that's what we got.  It was very quiet and I thought the room was on par with the Hollywood Hard Rock, high quality but not overly so.  I had no complaints and I expect the suites are fantastic but not necessary unless you enjoy bigger rooms or get them comped. The rooms are either mountain view or have a view of the Strip.  The Red Rock is in the middle of a shopping mall and right next to the expressway, so I don't think the view matters.The Beau Rivage is a different animal altogether.  Frankly, it's one of the nicest casino hotels we have ever been to.  Being right on the Gulf, my wife likes the water view rooms.  It's not that the rooms are any better than Red Rock, it's just the atmosphere and the surroundings.  The best way to experience the Beau Rivage is to pay for a room (they're cheap during the week) and gamble somewhere else.  The employees treat you like family and we knew many of them personally.  Unfortunately, the odds are ridiculously bad.  So bad in fact that Bob Dancer would need hospitalization after playing there.   How do 96% Deuces, 7/5 Jacks or 7/5 DDB in the high limit room sound to you?  We would like to go back to Biloxi some day if we can find a Mississippi casino with decent quarter VP odds.  It's a nine hour drive from our home in Mount Dora, but we would do it if they would give us something we could live with.  One thing I forgot to mention is how good the ventilation is at Red Rock.  We did see a few cigar smokers, but the constant tobacco smoke odor was pretty much gone.   


Thanks for the scoop on the Red Rock, must be decent place to stay. The suites are quite pricey. It is almost blasphemy only for myself to pay for a hotel room at a casino. Depending on what happens with the Palms casino, I'll make my first visit there later.

Mr. Dancer is restricted at MGM properties after that MDVP run. I do not think he will play at Beau Rivage because of that fact.

Your information about the Beau Rivage is outdated. I have my own plan laid out on how to approach things at Beau Rivage if I am forced to visit there. It is all legitimate, but you won't like it at all.

Concerning the Avis problem:

I travel about 120-140 days per year and during many years of travel I have rented many cars. Avis and Budget are two of the very worst national chains, in my opinion. We now use Enterprise and Hertz almost exclusively.

I have had some experiences with Avis and Budget that you would not believe, including the Budget bus dropping me off at the remote Budget location at a large metropolitan airport in bad weather and then driving off before I discovered that the doors to the building were locked and there were signs posted directing customers to use the airport location only, because of computer malfunctions. Duh, why was the bus still picking people up and transporting them to the remote location?

As far as Avis, I had reserved a car at LAX and arrived in the middle of the night to find that they had no cars ready but promised to get me one very soon. They kept telling me it was on the way. I finally got it almost 2 1/2 hours later and arrived at my hotel at 3:30 am LA time, which was 5:30 am for me.

Enterprise and Hertz are not perfect, not at all, but the quality and training of the employees is amazingly better than Avis and Budget. (Although Budget is by far the worst.) At most airports, not all, Enterprise has always gone the extra mile for me. (Note: There are some non-airport Enterprise locations that are franchisees, not corporate, and I cannot vouch for these.)

The very best rental car experience I ever had in my entire life was at the Charlotte airport years ago. All of the Enterprise employees on duty except the manager were MBA candidates who were interning for real world business experience. These guys were fantastic and I could only wish that all rental car employees were that good all the time!

Also, I would advise everyone to avoid United Airlines at the Las Vegas airport --- service is terrible and the on-time arrival and departure, in my own personal experience, has almost always been very, very, very bad. If you have to connect somewhere, flying United out of McCarran is risky indeed!

Much much appreciated about the heads up information about the car rental and McCarran Airport travel. Sometimes, you get what you paid for. I just rely on Uber and lyft these days if I have to go to far, I do not move around too much so its more worth it than to go through such troubles.

[billryan]

Were back from our Vegas trip.  Nice flight and no drama.  The trip started out a little weird when the Avis clerk messed up our rental car booking.   They had us picking up the car at the Bellagio when we wanted it at the rental car center.  She took my American Express card and wanted to upgrade me to a car for $650.  I canceled the contract and called the 800 Avis line while standing in line, booked another car for $290 and fixed the problem until she misplaced my credit card.  I told her she had it and she said I never gave it to her.  While still in line, I called American Express and canceled my card.  She called me 5 minutes down the road to tell me she found my card. I don't think we'll be using Avis again anytime soon.  The Red Rock and South Point were great and the entire Vegas experience was eye opening. We used to go to Vegas years ago before we got into VP.  We always stayed on the Strip.  We quit going when it became over developed and the sidewalk was covered with people giving out free peep show cards.  When you play VP, you look for different things than a first time tourist. When you get into the Vegas VP scene, the first thing you notice is the odds difference.  The second thing is the fact that there are actually two games going on, VP and the Comp game.  There are so many freebies and extras involved in Vegas gambling it's hard to imagine until you experience it.   I can see how a good player can play even here and count the comps as winnings.  Counting them isn't an entirely fair comparison if you are comparing your actual VP results with a Vegas player, but it's a significant part of your profit none the less. At the Dancer level, I'm sure you could live a pretty good lifestyle from the comps alone.  The VP odds differences are dramatic.  The lowest deuces wild pay schedule at the Red Rock was Airport Deuces.  NSU is common and they have a small bank of full pay deuces in quarters. 9/6 Jacks is everywhere along with 8/5 Bonus Poker and 9/6 DDB.  I'm sure I could have found full pay DDB if I had wanted to.  The pay schedule at South Point is about the same.   As pointed out earlier, at South Point you can convert your play credits to cash.  This alone would be enough to make me a customer.  Here's a picture of the NSU machines at the Red Rock.  They even labeled them so an old man like me can find them.  We played VP solid from Sunday night until Thursday evening, only taking time out to eat, sleep and whatever came to mind.   I don't know how many hands we played between us, but it was significant.  Except for a few hours on my part, we played NSU exclusively.   I tried full pay DW for a while, but wasn't sure of the strategy changes and I know NSU cold.  To test the "gind it out" strategy, we played max coin quarter single line DW the entire time.  My wife is a very accurate player.  In fact I would put her accuracy against anyone on this forum.  She has a way with numbers that's pretty amazing.  Anyway, she hit two sets of quad deuces the entire trip.  She does make a few small changes in her strategy going for the royal on all non deuce two card Ace high hands.  Thishemo

Im trying to follow this. You say you'll put your wife's accuracy against anyone on the forum, but then say she goes for a royal on all two card Ace high hands. How do you reconcile two such opposite statements?

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]You say you'll put your wife's accuracy against anyone on the forum, but
then say she goes for a royal on all two card Ace high hands. How do
you reconcile two such opposite statements?[/quote]That is a fair question.  I hope you are asking it because you seriously want to know and not just trying to pick another food fight.  Accuracy to me means you are able to play your intended strategy perfectly without errors.  My wife knows VPW Airport Deuces strategy perfectly and can play on her computer for hours without errors.  She was a banker early in her career.  She is the kind of person that can look at a row of 10 numbers for a few seconds and  give them back to you in order 30 minutes later.   I have no idea how she does it, but she does.There is a big difference between knowing mathematically correct strategy, intentionally making changes to it and making unintended errors.  My wife is very aware that making modifications to the mathematically correct strategy costs her a few cents each hand.    She plays for entertainment and wants to see more royals and wild royals and she is willing to pay the price.  One of the reasons she chooses to play quarters is to keep this cost as low as possible.Attempting to turn a pleasing recreational activity into a soul sucking task takes the fun out of the game and turns VP into a job.   Neither Bob Dancer or Bill Ryan are paying her to play.   My wife knows the math, places her own bets her own way and her accuracy is near perfect.  Players that can play perfect mathematical strategy and chose to modify it for their own purposes are not "bad" players.  If you are going to pick a fight with anyone who ever intentionally makes a modification to mathematically correct gambling strategy, you are going to be very busy indeed.

[FAA]

I love the 99.8% photo. I am surprised that AC eschews such tacky marketing. They need all the help they can get. But the next photo is the masterpiece. The Royal Flush shines like a thousand suns. Love the Good Luck message caption. What a nice touch!

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]I love the 99.8% photo. I am surprised that AC eschews such tacky marketing.[/quote]That photo is from the Red Rock in Las Vegas.  Their full pay machines are also marked.

[alpax]

My wife knows VPW Airport Deuces strategy perfectly and can play on her computer for hours without errors.  She was a banker early in her career.  She is the kind of person that can look at a row of 10 numbers for a few seconds and  give them back to you in order 30 minutes later.   I have no idea how she does it, but she does.There is a big difference between knowing mathematically correct strategy, intentionally making changes to it and making unintended errors.  My wife is very aware that making modifications to the mathematically correct strategy costs her a few cents each hand.    She plays for entertainment and wants to see more royals and wild royals and she is willing to pay the price. 



I am sure the Mrs. has enough experience with Airport DW, but with the increase of the Straight Flush payout in NSU Deuces to 10 for 1, it does alter the strategy approach. You can use NSU Deuces strategy on Airport Deuces and lose about 0.01% more, but the other way around is a little more costly (your situation). Practicing at the hotel room or a few nights before the actual trip is highly recommended to iron out these differences. Video Poker for Winners does just that.

It is a gifted humanistic ability to have such a good short term memory, that would come handy when a player needs to quickly review of the strategy charts to play in short notice. However, it is beneficial to know the reason (or why?) a particular hold is better than another. With this knowledge, it becomes much easier to retain the strategy in the long run when approaching a tough deal.

On the contrary, if the Mrs. was playing Airport Deuces at Red Rock and/or SouthPoint, it greatly increases the chances of getting offers by the mail for a return trip.



One of the reasons she chooses to play quarters is to keep this cost as low as possible.Attempting to turn a pleasing recreational activity into a soul sucking task takes the fun out of the game and turns VP into a job.   Neither Bob Dancer or Bill Ryan are paying her to play.   My wife knows the math, places her own bets her own way and her accuracy is near perfect.  Players that can play perfect mathematical strategy and chose to modify it for their own purposes are not "bad" players.  If you are going to pick a fight with anyone who ever intentionally makes a modification to mathematically correct gambling strategy, you are going to be very busy indeed.



I did find out that the two card suited Ace high versus discarding the hand makes the least difference in terms of expected return. To other people reading, it does not greatly boost your chances of a natural royal flush like it may sound. It does boost the flush if the other cards you throw away are not suited with the Ace high card. It does increase the chance of a wild royal, but reduces the common straight hand. A tiny fraction of a coin every hour?

I am not sure if the Mrs. does not go for the inside straight that Phil and olds do. This is much more costly than it sounds. I always go for it since I believe in the math religiously.

About the opinions, you have to respect players who want to take it very seriously when they critique the decision of not going for the inside straight. It is all legitimate concerns. Mr. Dancer plays the game for $25 denomination single line at Dotty's I recall with the story of the pub payout, so each 400 hand visit will cost him $40 on average if he made that mistake of not going for an inside straight. It might cost him a few good meals a year if he held an ace high suited cards.

I somewhat respect Bill's seriousness because I want to take the game very very seriously too. I have my opinions on various regulars here and others probably have an opinions about myself; but I will keep it to myself.

I love the 99.8% photo. I am surprised that AC eschews such tacky marketing. They need all the help they can get. But the next photo is the masterpiece. The Royal Flush shines like a thousand suns. Love the Good Luck message caption. What a nice touch!

I like both photos as well from the trip report. Not sure if you will notice, but the management at Stations Casinos are more knowledgeable about video poker than most other casinos in the nation, so they know to put up that sign, and will restrict perks to the players who play on those.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]I somewhat respect Bill's seriousness because I want to take the game very
very seriously too. I have my opinions on various regulars here and
others probably have an opinions about myself; but I will keep it to
myself[/quote]I respect Bob Dancer and Bill Ryan's view of the game and their opinions.  What I object to is their calling players who know perfect mathematical strategy and make a conscious decision to go against it "Bad Players", stupid or or undisciplined.  That is a totally elitist attitude and not at all helpful to anyone on this forum or else ware.   I currently play exactly as defined by my Bob Dancer VPW software.  My wife does not for the reasons I provided above.  Does this make her a worse player than me?   Of course not.  She knows what she is doing and she knows the ramifications. What we could use from both Bob Dancer and Bill Ryan is some understanding that we play video poker strictly for the fun of it and we play quarters because we choose to.  Lots of people do as we do and get alone just fine.   Recreational strategy is not necessarily the same as professional strategy and vice versa.  How someone plays video poker is their own personal business and we don't need someone telling us we're somehow inferior because we don't play 100% according to the math.   We also don't need someone telling us we're wrong for discussing how we play with other players on this forum. 

[billryan]

I don't believe I've called someone who alters their strategy to something less than accurate stupid. I may have said it's stupid to do it, but that's not the same thing.
I look at VP play as something that is as rote as the multiplication tables. I don't think you can say 12 times 8 is 96, except when you are having a bad day, or that one prefers to say that 27 times 8 is what you choose it to be, not 216. How does one judge accuracy when you don't follow established patterns.
Math is math. I don't get how one can be accurate yet not be correct.
Perhaps it's my blackjack background where there is one and only one correct play for your two cards and the dealers up card.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]Perhaps it's my blackjack background where there is one and only one correct play for your two cards and the dealers up card.[/quote]Perhaps.  You are assuming that everyone makes VP playing decisions based on their desire to have the best long term outcome.  That is just not the case.  Most recreational players play to hit jackpots.  If making a small 4 cent adjustment to their strategy causes them to experience more of them, many are willing to pay the price.  In addition, everyone knows their life is one continuous event, but many recreational players consider VP profit or loss on a daily basis.   At the very least, they want to know when they are out of money because walking out ahead is desirable while walking out totally broke is to be avoided.   This may seem silly to a Bob Dancer, but to most recreational players it's logical.   There are many differences in how individual players look at the game.   I understand your desire to teach people to be better players.  Personally, I think you would be more credible if you acknowledged the fact that not everyone wants the same thing.

[billryan]

So you think people would willingly trade better long term
results for possible short term ones?