my findings

[stevel96a1]

Bill go home or go play your slot machines

[DougJ]

what bothers me is when some naïve newcomer comes along and falls for your bull****. s.

Hmm, WHY does this bother you? WHY do you care?

Some of us don't need constant validation from others hiding behind a keyboard.

[DougJ]

. . well, for a lot of reasons. If you continue to ask questions about him, he might feel justified in coming back here and that would cause a great deal of stress for a lot of us. There are good reasons we don't want him here.But if you re-phrase your questions and post them on the Recreational Forum, he'll likely be happy to talk to you until the cows come home. That's a solution that works for you, him, and the rest of us]

More of the same old same old . . .   as another poster said, everyone can disappear for weeks or months, come back here, and it's the usual childish banter.
Thank goodness, we don't want anyone STRESSED over a post in an online forum.

Well, taking our toys now and going home . . . .

[FloridaPhil]

There is a perfect solution to this issue already in place.   Mr. Dancer and any member interested in his strategies and opinions have the entire Strategy Forum to themselves.   The owners of this website were kind enough to provide us with the Recreational Forum where we can discuss alternative VP strategies without interference.  Mr. Dancer, Webman and I agreed to this arrangement and it works just fine as long as we are not subject to constant attacks from Bill Ryan.   Mr. Dancer has asked Bill openly on this forum to leave us alone, but he hasn't gotten the message.  As long as he continues to attack us, this forum will be constantly at war.  I don't want to see that and I don't think anyone else does either.   There is nothing wrong with discussing any issue as adults.  Bullies have no place in intelligent discussion.  Enough already.[quote=steve196a1]as
for Phil i would like to hear more of your betting systems and
structures, i have VP simulations i can run them through and tinker with
them.[/quote]I have a unique situation with my wife playing VP along side of me.  She uses traditional max coin flat betting VP strategy and I use my own.  We both play the same games.  This gives me a chance to observe the differences in our daily and long term results. Computer simulations can never predict what happens in real playing conditions.  I will be happy to post my observations if asked.

[Jstark]

"Computer simulations can never predict what happens in real playing conditions."

This is complete and utter hogwash! Remember, you ARE playing VP on a computer in a casino.

Let me add that I don't care how someone else plays, what strategy they use and whatnot. But false information just cannot get a pass.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=jstark]This is complete and utter hogwash! Remember, you ARE playing VP on a computer in a casino.
[/quote]I disagree.  Computers don't make errors.  They don't stop to go to the bathroom or eat lunch.  They also don't run off to the high limit room in an attempt to catch back up or get bored and switch games.   Computer simulations can tell you the likelihood that something will happen based on mathematical computations. They can not predict what will happen in the short time you play the game.   In these calculations, there is always the mathematical possibility that your results will be different than the guy or gal next to you.  Because of this simple fact, gambling is risk taking.  If math helps you to make a decision that a certain risk is worth taking, I'm OK with that.What players like Bob Dancer do is only play only when the cards are stacked in their favor.   He makes a conscious decision to gamble on his success.  There are no guarantees he will come out a winner.   That's why it's called gambling.

[Jstark]

[quote=jstark]This is complete and utter hogwash! Remember, you ARE playing VP on a computer in a casino.
I disagree.  Computers don't make errors.  They don't stop to go to the bathroom or eat lunch.  They also don't run off to the high limit room in an attempt to catch back up or get bored and switch games.   Computer simulations can tell you the likelihood that something will happen based on mathematical computations. They can not predict what will happen in the short time you play the game.   In these calculations, there is always the mathematical possibility that your results will be different than the guy or gal next to you.  Because of this simple fact, gambling is risk taking.  If math helps you to make a decision that a certain risk is worth taking, I'm OK with that.What players like Bob Dancer do is only play only when the cards are stacked in their favor.   There are no guarantees he will come out a winner and he never claims there are.   That's why it's called gambling.

[/QUOTE]
Wrong again. You CAN program a simulation to make random errors along the way.

[FloridaPhil]

Well, I guess we agree to disagree.  That's what this forum is about.  If you can program a simulation to make all the errors a human can make, what do you have?   Is there any chance for variation from one player to the next or does everyone's results come out in lockstep with the computer?  From our experience most decent Recreational VP Players are playing at about a 5% disadvantage.  This is based on our results over the past 10 years.   This counts negative odds, errors, machine malfunctions, distractions, bad luck and all the rest.  This is why I am a proponent of cheap play. Players should realize attempting to emulate a professional VP player's results without the same skills, assets and advantages is a possible road to bankruptcy.  Do you have access to positive games?  Can you play 100% computer perfect forever?  Do you have the stamina, guts and bankroll to weather huge financial swings?  Is your family going to support you when things go bad?   The honest answer for 99% of us is NO.  Then why do you want to use the same methodology?There are ways to enjoy playing Video Poker in a casino without taking huge risks.   You'll have more fun for less money.  If you hit a jackpot, you can keep it instead of feeding it back into the machines.  I play both ways.  Both are fun.  Neither will make you rich.   It's your choice.

[billkuyk]

Here is real life at the casinos. I travel to Vegas 3 times a year,stay 3 nights at MSS, and primarily play bonus poker(8/5). 4 years ago I started playing with Boyds after tiring of TR. I have averaged $16,670 through the machines each 3 day visit and I figure that is about 3 to 4000 hands a day. I have a plan I stick to religiously, I know my game well and I always bring enough $ to weather any really bad streaks.My method is simple. I sit down to a machine and put in a$100. If my total gets down to 40 or 50 I cash out and start a new 100. If I get up 30 then I start setting "no lower thans"and cash out at some point and put in with another 100. When I have put in $1,000 I quit no matter how good or bad the session is. I walk around, get a snack, go to the golden gate for blackjack or do something else. In a while I start with a new session. The one thing that I always do is if I hit a really nice win I pocket it immediately. I learned that from a guy from Hawaii a long time ago and it seems to work well for me. I go to Vegas to do more than sit at a machine all day so I take in different shows go to the desert and look for places where locals dine etc. Here are the results from my win loss statements from Boyd gaming. For me it is key to (1) have plan (2) play the game I know best and (3) to have a good time in general. That is my form of money management. In 2014 my loss was $72, in 2015 I lost $472, in 2016 I won $5,860 and last year I lost $1,017. (Guess which year I had the royal while at a $2 machine.) I should note that most of my play is quarter or 50 cents. In addition some may want to add in a certain amount for 3 comped rooms,$10 free play and $20 food coupons each trip. I hope this helps some people to get a look at real life playing VP for a person outside of Vegas, how sticking to good percentage games affects play one over a longer period of time etc. As far as short coin vs. full play, well that is a different discussion for a different time...

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billkuyk]The one thing that I always do is if I hit a really nice win I pocket it immediately.[/quote]Personally, I think money management is more important than play strategy.  This is especially true when it comes to Recreational Players.   Discipline is paramount.  You must have a plan and stick to it.  Most all my big losses over the years have been self inflicted.  My wife plays the same game all the time at the same max coin denomination.  She plays slow and accurate.  Like you, she cashes out her jackpots and stashes them away.  If she's having a bad day, she finds something else to do.  At the end of the year, her losses are minimal.When you are playing a negative VP game, every hand is a long term loser.  Even if you find a positive game, errors and bad decisions can quickly turn it negative.  I do not believe good money management can turn a negative VP game positive in the long term, but it can hold losses to a bare minimum.  I do not expect to make a profit playing VP, but I don't want to overpay eiher.Comps can change how I play VP.   If the casino will give me something that I value for playing max coins and the cost of playing max coins is not more than the comp is worth, I play max coins.  If a casino has lousy games and their comp program stinks, I play as cheap as possible or find somewhere else to play.  We drive all over the country on VP road trips.  If I have driven 600 miles to play at a casino on the road somewhere and find terrible odds, I'm not going to walk out.  I use CS to save money.   It's just another tool you can use in your battle with the casino.