Scouting for plays??

[BillyJoe]

Billy Joe, while Frank did mention he occasionally finds machines set up incorrectly, I would not say that is his strategy. As I understand it his strategy is find progressive banks where the RF jackpot has risen so high that it leads to a return of much greater than 100%. I think he states an edge of 2-4% (or better) is what the team looks to play.
 
And, I understand that this approach is not reasonable for a someone who visits Vegas. In this case you have clearly stated your priorities. That is fine, but it does not change the fact that people can and do win playing VP by taking advantage of situations where they have the edge and one does not have to be a team member to do this.
 
Shadow, I understand. I just happen to be one of those poor FLA retirees that enjoys playing casino VP when in Vegas. And, if you haven't figured it out by now, I also enjoy 'sparring' on various subjects..   I TRUELY appreciate your and Frank's perspective on VP. Now, point me to that advantage machine...

[brmcc74]

[QUOTE=brmcc74] I dont see anyone making a living on vp. If they do then why do they all write books and do radio shows and work for casinos(work shops)? If something sounds to good to be true then chances are..........

You been listening to "...".

I can't discuss my gambling income, but I'd be happy to tell you about my radio show and book profits, if there were any. I'm currently stuck about $8,000 on all I've ever done as an author and host during my entire life. Yes that's right, I have lost money publishing and doing the show.

I did it to share knowledge and help people. That was my sole motivation. I'm very happy about the whole endeavor. It was really fun. if you think I did it for the money, or to supplement my VP income, clearly you don't have a grasp on the book industry right now. It is a negative expectancy. One writes books for other reasons, not profit.

I support my writing habit with my gambling job. Not the other way around.

~FK

P.S. Jean Scott may be the sole exception to the not for profit rule of VP books. She's sold more books than all the other authors combined x5.
[/QUOTE] I sure wasnt implying just "Frank" when I mentioned the Pro's with books, radio shows and tutoring workshops, seminars. Sorry that you couldnt make a huge profit on writting a book as Im sure the hours spent on a task such as that are monsterous. I havent read too much that you have had to say that I dont agree with. I cant discount the math because its easier for me to believe it. I just dont think that Everybody will win in the end, even if they put in the time to learn a perfect strategy. Gambling itself is a roller coaster and the bad swings are terrible. Ive played myself out of some bad situations. It just seems the more I play and the better I get, the less I like it. Seems odd to me. It was much funner when I didnt know what I was doing.

[Frank Kneeland]

I sure wasnt implying just "Frank" when I mentioned the Pro's with books, radio shows and tutoring workshops, seminars. I am privy to more than just my own publishing earns, though obviously I can only discuss my own. When I said Jean Scott was the only exception I was including more than just myself and her.
Sorry that you couldn't make a huge profit on writing a book as I'm sure the hours spent on a task such as that are monstrous. No need to be sorry. As I said, "I got exactly what I expected, more or less." I did not expect some people to think I did it for the money.I do find it bizarre that people would think someone did something with so little potential for profit, "only for the money" or "for the fame"...in a business where fame reduces your earning potential and costs you money.Oh well, people believe what they want most of the time, unless that belief kills them.I am reminded by the Kipling poem:If you can bear to hear the truth
you've spoken,Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools...then you'll be a man my son. ~Rudyard Kipling "If".
I haven't read too much that you have had to say that I don't agree with. I cant discount the math because its easier for me to believe it. I just don't think that Everybody will win in the end, even if they put in the time to learn a perfect strategy. Oh thank goodness, that's what the math says as well. The math actually predicts that everyone will not win, even if they play perfectly with an edge.And of course it predicts that not everyone will lose playing badly without an edge.The math even predicts how likely it is that its own predictions will come true.It's a weird mind twister, but math is never wrong, only people's interpretations of it can be flawed.
Gambling itself is a roller coaster and the bad swings are terrible. Ive played myself out of some bad situations. It just seems the more I play and the better I get, the less I like it. Seems odd to me. It was much funner when I didn't know what I was doing. Yes, this is perfectly normal. The more you know the less interesting it becomes. This has a lot to do with most of gambling's luster coming from illusory sources. Believe it or not, there are some activities where additional understanding increases the enjoyment.~FK

[shadowman]

Now, point me to that advantage machine...


 
I haven't been to Florida in about 10 years. I used to gamble at the Grands (before Harrahs bought them out) in Tunica and Biloxi when I did travel to Florida. They used to have my OEJ machines that are positive. I think they've all been removed by now since MS started enforcing the payback limit of <100%.

[patlives]

well i'm back. it's amazing how many bad pay schedules are out there. got almost half of the casino machines completed without finding a great play. did find several 99 percent plays that i was unaware of. leaving in 16 days for trip to sams town and downtown vegas. if anyone has a play or two at sams or dtlv for a young beginner, i would appreciate it!

[BobDancer]

Originally posted by brmcc74brmc74 wrote: I dont see anyone making a living on vp. If they do then why do they all write books and do radio shows and work for casinos(work shops)? If something sounds to good to be true then chances are..........  Your logic is flawed. It's like saying that Drew Brees never could make money as a football player because you also see him making commercials for NyQuil. (If you've never heard of Brees, he was the offensive player of the year this past year and runner up as MVP. A couple of years ago he was MVP of the Super Bowl. He is up for a new contract this year. It will probably be north of the $20 million annually range.) Or that Taylor Swift could never be a successful Fa la la because she also writes songs and makes ads for CoverGirl and is doing a movie (If you've never heard of Swift, she's won multiple dozens of singing awards at the CMAs, Grammys, People's Choice and other places. She's currently worth hundreds of $millions --- mostly from singing and writing songs.) People do things for a variety of reasons. It is very possible to something well and profitably and yet also enjoy doing something else as well. Your argument seems to be that if vp playing isn't the only thing in world that somebody does, that person can't be possibly be successful at it. That's just not true.  It's easy to see the logical fallacy when looking at Drew Brees and Taylor Swift. For whatever reason, it's harder for some people to see it's a fallacy when they are looking at me.  Insofar as my particular case is concerned, gambling at video poker (including drawings, tournaments, and other things where I had to play vp to qualify) have made up about 60% of my income over the past 18 years since I started the game in 1994. 15% has come from writing, teaching, consulting, endorsing, etc. 25% has been from asset appreciation (such as stocks, bonds, real estate, etc.)  There have been huge swings at gambling. There have also been huge swings in the stock and real estate markets. But over time, there has been an upward trend in my gambling results as well as these markets. My video poker income income itself has been positive every year except 2009. In my case, writing, teaching, and hosting a radio show broadens my gambling knowledge and lightens up my personality. I am a more successful gambler because of the knowledge I've gained by preparing for teaching classes and writing articles. A major reason I'm an expert today is because I've voluntarily taken it on myself to know the subject well enough to explain it to others. You need to have a strong knowledge base to do that. I enjoy the psychic income that comes from hundreds of people a year coming up to me and thanking me for helping them gamble better. There are people on some forums who enjoy criticizing me for a variety of reasons. That part of being a target celebrity isn't so much fun. But overall, I like being Bob Dancer and I like being a successful gambler. I could live quite well on my vp winnings. Actually we spend less than my average gambling win, so much of of my winnings are banked. My other sources of income are also banked. The net result is my gambling bankroll is more than $3 million higher today than it was when I moved to Vegas in 1993. In addition to my losing year, there have been years (like 2004 and 2011) where my video poker winnings for the year were smaller than our expenses. Fortunately I had other income to pick up the slack. But even if I didn't, that would merely mean my bankroll at the beginning of the next year was smaller than it was at the beginning of the year when gambling didn't cover expenses. Using a bankroll as a cushion for the lean years is really why you have a bankroll in the first place. There were other years, like 2008, where I had a large gambling win but lost far more in the stock market. That's another type of gambling. It's not my strength so I have found advisors I trust to invest my money for me. That's my way of "Gambling with an Edge" in this area of my life. I assume 2012 will be positive by the end of the year. January started out $70K in the soup. Not a big deal. I haven't hit any $100K royals yet this year. I probably will hit more than one, but I can't know the exact number until the end of the year. February has been positive even after absorbing a $10K Super Bowl loss. What the rest of the year will be I just don't know. But you can bet I'll be averaging 30+ hours a week and whenever you see me playing you can be positive that I think I have the advantage --- everything considered.   Bob        

[Frank Kneeland]

I can't speak for anyone but myself. If not for giving advice and trying to help people I would not feel I was a productive member of society. The world simply doesn't need professional gamblers. And for that mater the world does not need gambling.If all the farms & farmers on the planet disappeared tomorrow, we'd be facing an extinction level event.By contrast, what would happen if all the video poker machines stopped working and all the casinos closed?I'm thinking not too much. A few folks might just spend some extra time with their families or reading books. And those in the casino industry would have to find productive, jobs rather than living off the ignorance of others.Of course people like to be entertained and you can't really fault the casino industry for giving people what they want. The point is what people want is different from what they need. We need food. We only want to gamble.Since my brush with cancer I get up everyday and ask myself, "Will the world miss me when I'm gone?" When all I did was play machines for a living, the answer was not only, "NO", it's unlikely anyone would even have noticed.For me changing the answer to that question is worth the time and money I have lost being a writer and author. Unlike Bob, I'm still in the red as an author.~FK

[faygo]

I sure hope that puts to rest  that issue once and for all.

[backsider]

I sure hope that puts to rest  that issue once and for all.
 Whats the issue anyway? I didnt learn a thing about how to do better in my play from that back-patting horn-toot. I work in military intelligence, and one of the first things we were taught at strategic interaction class is when a subject isnt what he believes his public perception is then he automatically creates and recreates a grandiose picture of himself in too many words. After reading that long post Im asking whos playing him in the movies? Am I alone in that? I dont know Mr. Dancer but Ive heard some of him from the various sites and I have a software he may be involved in. I know he gets criticized for saying hes a pro gambler when he has other income from work, but Ive never thought much about that. Hes a success, thats America.  What turns me somewhat off is why he feels obligated to tell people of his alleged wealth, because most vp players dont have that luxury. One could think he talks about that so he can keep selling the software. I dont think Id buy from someone who says they lose, after all. I havent been around that long; has he ever proven what he claims? Ill bet not. Just say it and its true. I can only imagine if the US Military worked that way. The whole thing is difficult to grasp. People I know who have anywhere near even half his alleged assets would never be caught dead at a vp machine. If hes so inclined to make his money work for him then hed be more into big property deals or legal overseas (this is what we call it) financial-plus schemes and use vp machines as a form of entertainment. I had a big vp win this week but overall I dont do that well. Yes I have sour grapes because those who say they win, and there are a few besides him, have made big names for themselves without anything that confirms any of it, and they make money off of doing that too. Wheres the justice? Does anybody believe ME when I say I lose?  I can prove it. I drive a 1996 Buick when Im home.

[edog743]

Backsider, really? What in hell is your problem the guy tells you what he does and you basically call him a liar. Another sends you a book autographed and you spit in his face. I suggest you check yourself son. your fingers are writing checks you cannot cash.