Understanding casino math

[FloridaPhil]

I see a Wild Royal at about the same rate as you see 4-of-a-kinds or about one every 400 hands or so. The Wild Royal helps a bunch, but the game is a lot less volatile than DDB. What you are doing when playing Deuces Wild is treading water waiting for a royal or a quad deuce.  The royal comes a little less frequently than in Jacks or Better (45,000 hands to 40,000), but a quad deuce happens on average of about one every 5,000 hands.  You frequently go for some time without one, then get two or three in a day.  The strategy is a lot different than a quad based game and not what you would expect.  If you really want to get into it, I would advise you to buy some training software first.  I screwed up a lot before I got any good at it.  Anyway, my wife and I really enjoy the game.   It's exciting because you never know what's going to happen with the deuces in the game.  I play a little different than my wife.  She plays the same $1.25 bet all the time.  I start off with quarters, play $20 at a time and switch to 50 cent play when the counter reads $40 or more then play down to $20 and switch back to quarters. She requires a smaller bankroll than I do, but I hit bigger jackpots.  So far this year I'm ahead of her a couple grand.  Try it, you might like it.  Good Luck! 

[Mr.Dawes]

I see a Wild Royal at about the same rate as you see 4-of-a-kinds or about one every 400 hands or so. The Wild Royal helps a bunch, but the game is a lot less volatile than DDB. What you are doing when playing Deuces Wild is treading water waiting for a royal or a quad deuce.  The royal comes a little less frequently than in Jacks or Better (45,000 hands to 40,000), but a quad deuce happens on average of about one every 5,000 hands.  You frequently go for some time without one, then get two or three in a day.  The strategy is a lot different than a quad based game and not what you would expect.  If you really want to get into it, I would advise you to buy some training software first.  I screwed up a lot before I got any good at it.  Anyway, my wife and I really enjoy the game.   It's exciting because you never know what's going to happen with the deuces in the game.  I play a little different than my wife.  She plays the same $1.25 bet all the time.  I start off with quarters, play $20 at a time and switch to 50 cent play when the counter reads $40 or more then play down to $20 and switch back to quarters. She requires a smaller bankroll than I do, but I hit bigger jackpots.  So far this year I'm ahead of her a couple grand.  Try it, you might like it.  Good Luck! 






Thanks for the feedback FloridaPhil,I spent the last 30 minutes studying the strategy charts from the Wizard of Odds and discovered some interesting facts about the game. As you mentioned " waiting for a royal or a quad deuce" can take a while, however those two hands only account for 5.5% of the games total return. Compare this to DDB where quads and the royal account for 20% of the games' total return! So if your are having a day where you are not hitting the big ones it is far less damaging to your bankroll on DW44.Also interesting to me are the payouts for four of a kind and full house in DW44. Those two hands alone account for 35% of the games' total return and have a combined hit frequency of once per 11.5 hands. These two facts clearly account for the stability of the game. Thanks again for your thoughts. I will spend the next few weeks practicing at home and then play some on my June trip.

[alpax]

Though Deuces Wild has low variance, slightly higher than Jacks or Better and Bonus Poker, you have to survive in between Quad Deuces. By experience, if that does not happen soon enough, it can be brutal to a player with limited bankroll. 20k hands without quad deuces is entirely possible even though it averages 1 in 5k hands.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]Though Deuces Wild has low variance, slightly higher than Jacks or
Better and Bonus Poker, you have to survive in between Quad Deuces.[/quote]This is definitely true.  If you don't get a quad deuce or a royal in a day's play, you could be in for a bad day.  It's not as bad as DDB when you don't see a quad (been there), but it can ding your bankroll a bit.This is primarily why we play quarters.  I think the best way to gamble is to do it with money you really don't care about.  When the amounts you are wagering get to the serious financial or mental level, you need to find something else to do with your money.  If you are a professional gambler, I don't consider you a player.  You are a business venture and as such should be fully aware of the risks vs. the rewards.  Will you be the next Apple Computer or Facebook of video poker?  Possibly, but you could also be the next Lehman Brothers, Enron or Washington Mutual.  The big problem is these companies were playing with other people's money.  You are playing with your own.... 

[alpax]

I should have added that the situation I was put in made me more aware how it feels playing Deuces Wild.

I too would be much more comfortable playing video poker at quarters rather than dollars, but the paytable disparity was so much that I played higher denomination since I had a long term mindset of playing rather than Today's score.

25 cent VP Deuces was set for 20-12-9 (100 for wild royal, but 20 and 20 for 4oaK and Full House), pays 97.09%

$1 VP Deuces was NSU Deuces (125 for wild royal, 80 for 5oaK, 50 for Straight Flush) which is about 99.7% to most people who do not have the penalty situations down.

The math says that the theoretical loss for each hand played, playing the NSU Deuces at dollars will be MUCH less. However, that does not prevent the dry spell of quad deuces, a lot of bankroll is needed to withstand the benefit of the game. I came out of the casino down most of the time unless I got a good amount of wild royals.

The last month, the casino put in newer Game King video poker machines that offer Bonus Deuces Wild and Airport Deuces at denominations from nickels, dimes, quarters, halfdollar, dollar, two dollars, and five dollars. It does not offer much points, but it is good to have cheaper options for Deuces Wild.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]I too would be much more comfortable playing video poker at quarters
rather than dollars, but the pay table disparity was so much that I
played higher denomination since I had a long term mindset of playing
rather than Today's score[/quote]This was one of the main reasons I used to play the Cheap Strategy at the Hard Rock Casinos.   The difference between the quarter and dollar DW pay table was nearly 2%.  This is like taking away the royal flush bonus, so it made sense. In the past year, they've put in a few decent paying quarter DW machines, so I'm good with max coins. We will be at the Beau Rivage in three weeks and will need to make a decision.  Their pay tables stink, but they are comping the rooms and some food for three days. We figure this is worth at least $500, so we will probably play max coins the whole time and take a chance. If one of us hits a royal or a bunch of quad deuces during the stay, we usually come out OK.

[Mr.Dawes]

[quote=alpax]I too would be much more comfortable playing video poker at quarters
rather than dollars, but the pay table disparity was so much that I
played higher denomination since I had a long term mindset of playing
rather than Today's scoreThis was one of the main reasons I used to play the Cheap Strategy at the Hard Rock Casinos.   The difference between the quarter and dollar DW pay table was nearly 2%.  This is like taking away the royal flush bonus, so it made sense. In the past year, they've put in a few decent paying quarter DW machines, so I'm good with max coins. We will be at the Beau Rivage in three weeks and will need to make a decision.  Their pay tables stink, but they are comping the rooms and some food for three days. We figure this is worth at least $500, so we will probably play max coins the whole time and take a chance. If one of us hits a royal or a bunch of quad deuces during the stay, we usually come out OK.



[/QUOTE]Right down the street from the Beau Rivage is the IP casino. At the Insomnia bar in the IP they have quarter airport deuces and the Royal is progressive!  If you play at the Beau be careful of the video poker bar, one half of the bar has lower payouts than the other half.

[FAA]

This is definitely true. If you don't get a quad deuce or a royal in a day's play, you could be in for a bad day. It's not as bad as DDB when you don't see a quad (been there), but it can ding your bankroll a bit.
This is primarily why we play quarters.
Preach, Phil, preach!! Wayward apostle must return to fold asap!

[notes1]

two friends decide they are going to invest the same amount of money, over the same period into the same stock. friend A buys the stock on day 1 and leaves it untouched, over the entire agreed upon duration. friend B, invests on day 1, but instead of leaving it untouched, day trades the stock, getting in and out multiple times, over the agreed time period. their results are likely to be much different, even though they invested in the same exact stock, over the same time period. I/M/O, this is how i look at playing VP. unless one is playing non stop, on the same machine over an extended duration, one's actual results, may well be very different than the expected results. 

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=notes1]unless one is playing non stop, on the same machine over an extended
duration, one's actual results, may well be very different than the
expected results.[/quote][quote=FAA]Preach, Phil, preach!! Wayward apostle must return to fold asap![/quote]Just call me Reverend Phil.  I kind of like the way that sounds.   If preaching against losing your ass playing video poker is what I'm known for, I'm OK with it.