I call it 1-2-3 DDB

[Zid]

I misspoke on the casino tax record. You are correct, it is called a win loss statement and I have heard as well that the IRS does not acknowledge them. My accountant, however, dutifully files them and -- thus far over the last two years of reportable $20K+ gross winnings -- the statements seem to have wings.
Of course, an audit can occur 5 years from now on this year's return. If so, I will eagerly await the IRS agent who insists that I won all that money and didn't lose a write-=off'able dime in all those casino visits.

-0-

By the way, to those of you here who seemed so pissed at each other and quick to tell others they don't know squat: this board seems an unhappy pastime for you. You seem to take pleasure in ranking over the other guy. One might assume that you are tired of losing in video poker and/or life. A certain "I know it all and you don't, so get smart idiots!" attitude.

As the saying goes, methinks you protest too much.

And that's sad, don't you think? And now you've already got me stooping to the same low. The rookie poster here.

And I'm still waiting for a definitive word reference to the theory that casinos have no control whatsoever over the pace of payouts on their vp machines. These otherwise INERT vp machines.

And here -- for what it's worth -- is the e-mail I received from my somewhat significantly successful vp-playing, retired chemical engineer & mathematically blessed bro-in-law about 5 years before he died. I'm sure he'd have no problem in my posting it, but feel free to ignore:

"Here is my super secret method for draw poker (aka jacks or
better):

    1. Only play those machines that pay out 9 units for a full house for
1 bet, and 6 units for a flush for 1 bet.

    2. Play any denomination you can afford ($0.25, $0.50, $1.00, $2.00, $5.00, ........$25.00. you can always go from one denomination to another. My method (not Anne’s) is: if you lose about $5.00 on a $0.25 machine, switch to another machine. There surely are enough machines and they are waiting 24 hours a day just for you. Remember these are electronic, inert gadgets that rely on a "random number chip". Some machines will be in a losing mode and fewer in a winning mode. Keep moving and try to find one in a winning mode.

    3. Now you have your machine, you have the game you want, you have your money, all you need is a betting strategy: start by betting 1 unit, if it wins bet 3 units, if it wins bet the max of 5 units. (do not play the machines that allow you to bet more than 5 units as a max. Continue betting at 5 units as long as you are winning. (minimum 2 times). If you then lose, go down a unit with each loss, if you win go up as before. ASSUME YOU ARE WINNING, IF YOU DOUBLE YOUR MONEY CASH OUT, and put new money in.
    
    4. Remember - you are not looking for the best possible win, but the best probable win.

    5. Discipline!!!!!!!!!"

[Zid]

bill ryan --

And another question where I need some guidance. Are you saying that every vp hand and its win/loss must be recorded -- i.e. in writing -- to pass muster with the IRS? If so, do you do that?   I've yet to see anyone in any casino writing it all down. But I'll consider it if someone can say it is so and advisable. Of course, 3 hrs of play would then by 9 hrs actually in the casino -- and more like homework than play, but...

[case]

So you lose 21k and you think the casinos are not doing well so they tamper with the machine? Many people feel because they are in a slump that the machines have been "adjusted". It is once again called variance. Sometime you win and sometime you......

Do you feel casinos can do what ever they want to a machine without having to answer to anyone? Do you feel no one checks the payback of machines? You are wrong.

[Zid]

Re: "You are wrong."

Pretty darn-tutin' sure of yourself, ain'a?

I'd reverse the statement by (again) asking you to show me where it is written that an Indian casino can't adjust its machines at will --- assuming they are adjustable.

Perhaps a better question: why has no one ever chimed in on conversations like this one to say "I am a technician at a casino and can certify that..."

Absent that, I will continue to assume that my position is no more nor less feasible than yours.

[billryan]

Maybe because no one here is a technician at a casino, or perhaps because the casinos know where the technicians live and would kill their families if they ever admitted it.
Matter of fact, couldn't those employee day care centers really be hostage centers?

[onemoretry]

But I'll keep reading...
You might try reading some of the gaming regulations that deal with video poker.

[billryan]

   I say let him keep thinking as he does. We need people who happily drop $20,000 so the casinos have money to pay us off.
His sure fire, math based 1-2-3 betting system, combined with his knowledge of how the game is played only cost him $20K last year.
Who are we to argue with success like that?
Keep on keeping on!

The mind is like a parachute. Dead weight until you choose to open it.

[Zid]

So Bill, you now confirm my suspicions. You are the ex-officio head of the know-it-all contingent on this thread. Hubba-hubba and congratulations.

But I do suggest you google the Wisconsin Indian Gaming regulations web site and then try to find the line about how the tribes cannot -- under penalty of law -- pre-define how much -- or how little -- the tribes can clear, in the win/loss equation, on a given day of operations. (Hint: I don't think that line is there. Maybe because it's a stupid premise? But I could be wrong.)

Also, I "lost", on a net basis according to the casino, $21K in 2016. But that was on a betting volume -- total coin in and out -- of several hundred thousand dollars.
Not a big deal for me. I don't fault anyone for being a nickel player, but I am not. I received a year's worth of entertainment last year, unlimited "free" fine dining options along with several hotel stays at my level of play. And if I manage to wipe out that $21K deficit in a single visit to my favorite local casino anytime down the road, it's gravy on the sirloin and I will be certain to let you know.

Call it the holy grail for all of us perhaps...and a reasonably entertaining ride for those who can afford the fare. For you...maybe someday.

[FAA]

It sounds crazy, but a $5 loss on a quarter machine really is a bad omen. I usually am a net loser on such a machine. Why go on that ride when the adjacent machine may be much more cooperative? So, thanks for shatthat email. It is food for thought.

[markinca]

Zid,

So just to make sure I'm clear on what you're claiming,

Option 1:

The casino offers <100% video poker and is virtually guaranteed to make a profit for a decently long time frame. If they want to make more money, they can just lower the pay table, which would be completely legal.

Option 2

Instead of lowering the pay table (or perhaps in addition to), the casinos mess with the internal random number generator in the machine to ensure less jackpots are paid out. This would require:

1) That messing with the RNG is even be possible, which there has been zero evidence of.
2) The creators of the video poker machine software to keep quiet about all of these backdoors.
3) Risking word of this getting out and hurting business, when they could have just changed the pay table legally.

And you're going with option 2?